WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.340 We've also got the contrary camp, who state that you can learn nothing from international comparisons, 00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:12.740 because comparisons are too embedded in culture. Systems are too specific to learn anything from. 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:21.480 I believe that neither of those camps are accurately reflecting what we can achieve by understanding other systems and comparing systems. 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:29.560 I think that well-theorized, effectively undertaken international comparisons can yield deep insights into our own systems, 00:00:29.560 --> 00:00:32.060 and provide us with a basis for action. 00:00:32.860 --> 00:00:33.780 And that's critical. 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.400 Now, our three speakers' biographies are on the conference website, 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:41.560 so I'm not going to go into their histories, their backgrounds and their achievements. 00:00:43.120 --> 00:00:45.680 But I'm going to give a very brief introduction to each of them. 00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:49.680 I'm going to introduce them together and then we'll hear them present. 00:00:49.900 --> 00:00:54.020 Now, Isabel Nesbitt is an old colleague from QCA days, 00:00:54.160 --> 00:00:59.540 from time at Ofqual and then had time at Cambridge Assessment in the Singapore office. 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:06.880 and Isabel has deep insights into issues of historical legacy in education systems, 00:01:06.880 --> 00:01:13.480 into the political, cultural and economic imperatives operating on education systems 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:20.480 and the place of education in education in economic, social and personal development. 00:01:21.240 --> 00:01:24.840 She's very well praised because of her personal work. 00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:29.100 Then we move to Jeremy Hodgen, Professor Jeremy Hodgen. 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:44.410 And Jeremy undertaken sophisticated immersive comparisons across a range of nations using comparisons to reflect on the English approach to mathematics education in particular to make a series of sensitive and well 00:01:44.410 --> 00:01:48.950 recommendations for improvements of maths provision within England, particularly in the 00:01:48.950 --> 00:01:54.030 16 to 19 segment of the system. And we will hear about some of those reflections and the 00:01:54.030 --> 00:01:59.730 way that recommendations have been distilled from those studies. And finally, we have Dr. 00:01:59.730 --> 00:02:09.690 Karina Zimmer from DIPF in Germany. And I've worked with Eckhart and Nina from DIPF previously, 00:02:09.690 --> 00:02:18.850 really discussing the problematic appropriation of the German approach in other nations. People 00:02:18.850 --> 00:02:25.170 just don't understand what's going on in Germany in the wake of Pisa. We've had to promulgate 00:02:25.170 --> 00:02:28.590 a much more accurate picture of what's been happening in Germany. 00:02:29.110 --> 00:02:30.730 We've got to want to break the naive accounts 00:02:30.730 --> 00:02:32.710 of the German response to international surveys. 00:02:34.030 --> 00:02:35.290 People talk about PISA shock, 00:02:35.290 --> 00:02:39.710 but actually in Germany there was Tim's anxiety and then PISA shock. 00:02:41.010 --> 00:02:43.770 The story from Germany is not the one we often hear, 00:02:44.030 --> 00:02:47.850 of simplistic adjustment of the German nation's curriculum and assessment 00:02:47.850 --> 00:02:51.330 to align with PISA in order to improve scores. 00:02:51.930 --> 00:02:53.370 That just is not accurate. 00:02:53.370 --> 00:03:01.170 What we will hear from Karine is a sophisticated program of domestic research and action, which 00:03:01.170 --> 00:03:03.910 PISA did not determine, but stimulated. 00:03:04.810 --> 00:03:09.590 And that elaborate program of research is very interesting in terms of the way it's 00:03:09.590 --> 00:03:20.400 been formulated the way it been enacted and the impact that it has had on the German system So three speakers beginning with Isabel So I like to now call Isabel to the stage 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:27.280 Thank you very much. Good afternoon and hello across the world. 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:30.820 I'm going to talk about national and international education 00:03:31.340 --> 00:03:33.100 to try and pick up some of the questions. 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.020 For example, the last one that came from India. 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:36.740 Is there a threat? Is there a conflict? 00:03:37.380 --> 00:03:38.660 This is what I'm going to do. 00:03:38.660 --> 00:03:43.000 I'm going to say a very small amount about the imperatives for international education, 00:03:43.140 --> 00:03:45.440 but those are the imperatives that brought us all to this space. 00:03:45.940 --> 00:03:48.680 A bit about national education, I'll say what that means, 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:53.460 but broadly I'm talking about the kind of national education that's education in your own countries, 00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:55.220 values, history, culture. 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.480 I'll define the terms and then I'll ask, are they in conflict or are they not? 00:03:59.820 --> 00:04:03.020 Then I'll leave you with three propositions that you can argue with over lunch. 00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:05.960 So the first is about international education. 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:11.260 Think of everything we've heard this morning, both from our speakers and also from Egypt and from India. 00:04:11.480 --> 00:04:18.300 The imperatives that drove parents to send their kids to international schools and the powers of globalisation. 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:25.780 This is an extract from a description of international education, in this case the global perspectives qualification, as our subject. 00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:29.460 And the words I've put in red there are the ones you've heard all morning. 00:04:29.980 --> 00:04:35.400 Interconnected word, an information-heavy world, kids getting a sense of their own place in the world. 00:04:35.400 --> 00:04:41.660 and studying matters of global significance. And then we know that OECD are sponsoring research 00:04:41.660 --> 00:04:48.100 work to develop a new assessment for PISA to be tried out in 2018 on so-called global competence. 00:04:48.340 --> 00:05:02.669 So we all waiting to see what that going to be We also heard a little bit about who the students are of this international education Not just people who go to international schools but we say a bit more about what this international education might mean 00:05:03.229 --> 00:05:07.509 And what you got from the economic overview we got this morning was a clear view. 00:05:07.509 --> 00:05:18.349 This is largely about the indigenous middle classes across the world, particularly the developing world, wanting an international education for their children. 00:05:18.789 --> 00:05:23.649 Now, you saw some figures earlier in the morning about the world position, about class move, 00:05:23.889 --> 00:05:26.269 but I wanted to show you some from Southeast Asia, 00:05:26.669 --> 00:05:31.029 and I'm going to use a few examples, if I may, from where I've just come from to make me feel at home. 00:05:31.489 --> 00:05:33.389 Now, look at the top line of this chart. 00:05:33.389 --> 00:05:36.769 This is the rise in the middle classes in Indonesia. 00:05:37.429 --> 00:05:43.329 The dark blue line is 2009, and the light blue line is 2014. 00:05:43.689 --> 00:05:44.429 Look what's happening. 00:05:44.429 --> 00:05:54.549 These are huge, huge numbers of middle class parents in Indonesia who have got children who they want to have a good and competitive education. 00:05:55.529 --> 00:05:56.929 Look at the changes in Vietnam. 00:05:57.569 --> 00:06:01.569 Look at the ones in Thailand and Philippines, which is another economic story as well. 00:06:01.949 --> 00:06:03.109 Enormous change there. 00:06:03.349 --> 00:06:05.049 That's where the big numbers are coming from. 00:06:05.309 --> 00:06:11.909 Not, as you've heard, from the declining numbers of expats and business class and first class, because there's fewer of those now. 00:06:11.909 --> 00:06:16.949 there's many many more professionally qualified parents or new middle-class 00:06:16.949 --> 00:06:21.909 parents who want international education for their children however and this is 00:06:21.909 --> 00:06:26.549 my main point I'm putting to you that you must remember today there is also a 00:06:26.549 --> 00:06:31.669 resurgence of an interest in national education and education in national 00:06:31.669 --> 00:06:33.489 values and history and 00:06:33.590 --> 00:06:38.770 culture. There to make me feel at home, it's where I was living for the last three years in Singapore. 00:06:39.470 --> 00:06:44.530 And there's a quote from the previous Prime Minister in the 1990s, Prime Minister Goh, 00:06:44.810 --> 00:06:49.910 in a National Day Rally speech, this is the big league, about one of the most important things 00:06:49.910 --> 00:06:54.850 for Singapore is national education. Our history, our geography, the constraints we faced, 00:06:55.270 --> 00:07:01.330 what we must do to continue, that is national education, he said. And 10 years or so later, 00:07:01.330 --> 00:07:06.530 the government produced this poster which is up in many of the schools and these are key messages 00:07:06.530 --> 00:07:12.170 for national education from Singapore and some of them you may find ring bells with where you come 00:07:12.170 --> 00:07:17.150 from whether you're in this hall or watching from overseas some of them might look a bit odd a bit 00:07:17.150 --> 00:07:22.290 but no one owes Singapore a living so we've jolly well got to do it ourselves a bit about meritocracy 00:07:22.290 --> 00:07:28.870 right in there in the key values and incorruptibility so these are at the core of their educational 00:07:28.870 --> 00:07:35.690 campaign. But in case you think this is a story about Singapore and Asia, this is from the United 00:07:35.690 --> 00:07:41.190 Kingdom. And what I've shown there is a white paper, the Prevent Strategy, which was published 00:07:41.190 --> 00:07:46.990 in 2011, which was trying to bring together what the country needs to do to defend itself from the 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:52.270 threats of terrorism within our borders. And it attempted there to set out what it thought were 00:07:52.270 --> 00:07:58.130 fundamental British values. And these are the ones set out there. There's some that correspond to the 00:07:58.130 --> 00:08:01.610 Singaporean ones some are a little bit different the emphasis on individual 00:08:01.610 --> 00:08:05.270 liberty is a little bit different but mutual respect is in both of them and 00:08:05.270 --> 00:08:23.580 tolerance and as many of you from the United Kingdom will know the government has this year undertaken a consultation with a view to toughening up the requirements on independent schools in the UK not just to respect these values but to promote them and to embed them in education 00:08:23.580 --> 00:08:26.400 and you see some words there, fundamental British values. 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.540 And the consultation document says 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:33.000 embedding is not just having a token visit 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.940 to a faith centre from somewhere else. 00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:39.000 It's actually making this at the heart of what you're teaching. 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:42.320 And this is a quote from the British Prime Minister. 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:45.880 We need to be far more muscular in promoting British values. 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:48.460 This is what a country is all about. 00:08:48.780 --> 00:08:51.220 This is what defines us as a society. 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:56.500 So this is at the heart of what's regarded as important in this country as well as in Southeast Asia. 00:08:57.020 --> 00:09:02.480 And not to lose out on my fellow countrymen, those of us who are familiar with the new mace of the Scottish Parliament, 00:09:02.660 --> 00:09:04.320 it has values inscribed on it. 00:09:04.700 --> 00:09:08.620 We've got wisdom in Scotland, you appreciate we don't have that in England, but we've got wisdom. 00:09:09.160 --> 00:09:12.040 And we've got justice, compassion, integrity. 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:16.820 I understand that these were rather made up by the artist who did the mace, 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:25.320 but in fact what's happened is that there has been a determined effort to put these values and place them in the Scottish curriculum. 00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:30.840 This diagram here, which is called the education weave in Scotland and various other things, 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:39.260 is very similar to diagrams in Australia, in Hong Kong, in Singapore and in Malaysia, about how national values permeate education. 00:09:40.180 --> 00:09:44.440 Now, quite a few countries would like to have the best of both worlds. 00:09:44.440 --> 00:10:00.669 They want to have both They want all the things we been talking about today and they want these national things too This is a quote from the Malaysia Blueprint for Education What success will look like every student leaves as a global citizen with core universal values and a strong Malaysian identity 00:10:01.529 --> 00:10:07.569 And the Australian national curriculum, all young Australians should become responsible global and local citizens. 00:10:08.789 --> 00:10:12.609 But can you really do that? Can you have the best of both worlds? 00:10:12.609 --> 00:10:16.369 And as always, with almost everything we're discussing, John Dewey's asked it first. 00:10:17.029 --> 00:10:20.709 And he was very much a fan of international education. 00:10:21.069 --> 00:10:24.729 He thought what unites us as much is superior to what divides us. 00:10:24.789 --> 00:10:35.049 But he asked the question, can a nation's concerns about these narrow, inferior things get in the way of what he thinks is a superior international education? 00:10:35.389 --> 00:10:37.909 Are they in conflict? Can they be reconciled? 00:10:37.909 --> 00:10:43.089 well to answer that I think firstly we need very briefly to define our terms 00:10:43.089 --> 00:10:48.729 national education in one sense is used to mean the nation-states education 00:10:48.729 --> 00:10:52.149 system and Tim was talking about one national system learning from another 00:10:52.149 --> 00:10:56.629 and that's broadly that national sense of national education but the other one 00:10:56.629 --> 00:11:01.029 which is perhaps more interesting from my point of view is a subset of the 00:11:01.029 --> 00:11:05.029 national education program aiming to promote knowledge about the students own 00:11:05.029 --> 00:11:07.789 country and sometimes to inculcate 00:11:07.789 --> 00:11:10.429 patriotism and commitment to national 00:11:10.429 --> 00:11:12.349 values. One of the objectives of the 00:11:12.349 --> 00:11:14.629 Singapore primary curriculum is that at 00:11:14.629 --> 00:11:16.089 the end of primary school the student 00:11:16.089 --> 00:11:17.689 will love Singapore. That's one of their 00:11:17.689 --> 00:11:19.589 objectives of the output for the 00:11:19.589 --> 00:11:22.589 curriculum. Now what are these, sorry I'll 00:11:22.589 --> 00:11:37.819 go back to that quite a lot been written about the reasons why countries do follow national curricula of this kind It can be a tool for forming states and I do recommend some of the work that Edward Vickers has written about this with reference to Asian countries 00:11:38.199 --> 00:11:43.099 It can also be a tool for holding or trying to hold large nation states together. 00:11:43.459 --> 00:11:46.579 You've seen a little bit of that conflict in Hong Kong. 00:11:46.579 --> 00:11:53.519 And in fact, the Chinese government has done quite a lot of work on the Hong Kong curriculum to try and make students feel more Chinese. 00:11:53.819 --> 00:12:01.079 It can also be seen as a protection, as we saw with the UK example, against threats to national stability. 00:12:01.719 --> 00:12:07.519 And these kind of threats could include racial conflicts in several of the countries that represented here. 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:13.639 If there were a conflict between the cultures in a society, the whole cohesion of the society could fall apart. 00:12:14.139 --> 00:12:15.179 The threat of terrorism. 00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:22.319 And also, and this refers to the question which our friend from India asked just before coffee, about cultural threat. 00:12:22.319 --> 00:12:27.679 and there is a strong sense particularly in some of the parts of asia that i've been living in 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:33.059 that there is a threat from international education to the cultural health of the country 00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:38.939 and particularly a threat of the spread of what some of them regard as decadence or materialism 00:12:38.939 --> 00:12:44.579 or secularism and all these words and selfishness in some cases and are all seen as part of a kind 00:12:44.579 --> 00:12:51.199 materialistic American-led culture of material values and here's an example 00:12:51.199 --> 00:12:55.799 from a document produced by the Thai government called the 21st century Thai 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.319 learner it's got a list of things that they should have so this is only one of 00:12:59.319 --> 00:13:03.059 them but one of the essentials is Thai values and morals 00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:07.079 nurturing and developing a strong sense of Thai and moral values is a 00:13:07.180 --> 00:13:13.940 important, given the threats placed by globalization on national languages and identity. So they saw 00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:19.360 this as a threat. And some of our Thai visitors, when I was at Cambridge, were pointing to negative 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:24.960 examples, including, they said, Tiger Woods, who I wish no ill to, but who is half Thai. And they 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:31.200 thought this is not the kind of person they want their children to admire. Now, if that's national 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:35.540 education, what do we mean by international education? As Mark Tucker said, we have to know 00:13:35.540 --> 00:13:41.480 what we're meaning before we start evaluating it well some interesting stuff's been written and I've 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:46.980 given a reference there to Malcolm McKenzie about different senses of international education and 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:51.240 all of them are different from international schools because they can perhaps sometimes 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:56.880 provide a national education from another country so this is about international education I draw 00:13:56.880 --> 00:14:03.400 attention to two of those one that the learning is pan-national applying to all or most countries 00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:07.280 So it's matters that can be shared and done together with other countries. 00:14:07.660 --> 00:14:16.060 But also, interestingly, what Mackenzie calls transnational, equipping students to cross national boundaries physically and mentally in the future. 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:21.360 And I think some of the thinking behind that was behind quite a lot of what we were hearing this morning. 00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:25.920 Sometimes international education is a discrete subject. 00:14:26.560 --> 00:14:29.900 You know, you do maths, physics, chemistry and international education. 00:14:29.900 --> 00:14:35.480 and some of the existing curricula are very Western actually they're very much 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.220 orientated the United Nations and that sort of thing and sometimes seem quite 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:51.229 strange to countries to whom that culture isn isn very familiar but also it can be seen as a way of teaching all or most subjects For example in science the examples you take are global examples 00:14:51.509 --> 00:14:54.769 In history, you're looking more at world history and not just doing Henry VIII. 00:14:55.369 --> 00:14:59.109 And in literature, looking at world literature and not simply your own. 00:15:00.529 --> 00:15:01.849 Now, are they in conflict? 00:15:03.429 --> 00:15:06.349 Well, the first thing to say that is in practice, 00:15:06.349 --> 00:15:12.309 if all of us look at what is actually taught under the banner of international education 00:15:12.309 --> 00:15:18.409 and what is taught under the banner of national education in my sense about values and history of culture 00:15:18.409 --> 00:15:20.529 there's a huge amount of common ground. 00:15:21.089 --> 00:15:25.149 Large parts of the Australian national curriculum are about environmental issues, 00:15:25.149 --> 00:15:30.469 about global warming, about conservation, about different energy sources. 00:15:30.769 --> 00:15:34.049 This is crucial for the Australian economy and it's a global issue. 00:15:34.049 --> 00:15:38.869 also many countries particularly those with different races and cultures 00:15:38.869 --> 00:15:44.429 regard mutual respect and understanding of other cultures as at the heart of 00:15:44.429 --> 00:15:49.729 their national agenda also as we've heard it can be in the 00:15:49.729 --> 00:15:53.849 national economic interest for young people to be globally competent you heard 00:15:53.849 --> 00:15:56.709 that the answer to the question about China you know the government actually 00:15:56.709 --> 00:16:01.249 wants their people to be able to compete in that kind of world and so clearly 00:16:01.249 --> 00:16:05.489 international education in that sense can fulfill a national policy agenda of 00:16:05.489 --> 00:16:10.549 making their young people more competitive. However I would suggest that 00:16:10.549 --> 00:16:15.829 it's complacent to overlook all the tensions and challenges. This is not just 00:16:15.829 --> 00:16:29.379 an easy day of everything harmonizing with everything else and we all going out happy because there are challenges and tensions Some of the international curricula that have been developed particularly by some Western 00:16:29.379 --> 00:16:34.359 organisations such as Oxfam, for example, have objectives which some of the governments 00:16:34.359 --> 00:16:40.099 in areas where I've worked would find very objectionable. They regard promoting social 00:16:40.099 --> 00:16:45.939 activism and political action, for example, as an objective of the programme. Also a lot 00:16:45.939 --> 00:16:50.399 of them have a lot of Western references and also assumptions that individual rights are always the 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:55.619 most important things. Now my view and what I'm going to leave you with is that this should be an 00:16:55.619 --> 00:17:01.859 interactive relationship between national and international education. I'm encouraging you to 00:17:01.859 --> 00:17:06.039 have a look at this excellent book written by the former Archbishop of Canterbury who's now in 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:12.739 Cambridge called Faith in the Public Square. Now he distinguishes there are two types of secularism 00:17:12.739 --> 00:17:16.679 and I'm going to borrow those to apply them to national and international education. 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:19.719 One of them is what I've called an exclusive approach, 00:17:20.259 --> 00:17:24.579 in which secularism rules out of discussion any reference to faith at all, 00:17:24.679 --> 00:17:28.419 and it's entirely faith-free, and it just leaves all that to the private domain. 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:31.459 The second one, which he prefers, I've called interactive, 00:17:31.879 --> 00:17:36.219 which it respects all faiths equally, but encourages mutual conversation and challenge. 00:17:36.859 --> 00:17:38.919 And his biographer has called this, 00:17:38.919 --> 00:17:43.239 larger commitments and visions should be allowed to nourish the public conversation. 00:17:43.719 --> 00:17:48.239 And I'm suggesting to you that this interactive internationalism with a dialogue, 00:17:48.239 --> 00:17:53.399 a challenge, a conversation is what we should be looking for between the emerging stress 00:17:53.399 --> 00:17:56.119 on national values and international education. 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:07.249 So that was my outline and I leaving you with three propositions Number one we must educate in an international space We must do that for all the reasons you heard today 00:18:07.789 --> 00:18:10.709 The young people are going to live and work in an international space. 00:18:11.289 --> 00:18:14.429 My second one, national education as I've described it 00:18:14.429 --> 00:18:17.569 is a right and not an anachronistic embarrassment. 00:18:18.289 --> 00:18:21.889 I'm backed up in that by the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child 00:18:21.889 --> 00:18:24.009 which includes the one I've put in red there. 00:18:24.009 --> 00:18:29.849 it should be directed to the development of respect for his or her own cultural identity 00:18:29.849 --> 00:18:34.309 language and values for the national values of the country in which the child is living so that's 00:18:34.309 --> 00:18:40.389 set up clearly as a right and that means oh we international educators for all these millions 00:18:40.389 --> 00:18:46.009 of working of a middle class indonesian young people coming into our schools they have a right 00:18:46.009 --> 00:18:52.449 to an education in indonesian values and cultures and lastly the relationship should be an interactive 00:18:52.449 --> 00:18:58.089 one with mutual learning and challenge and I believe that that interaction and that dialogue 00:18:58.089 --> 00:19:05.169 is starting now and needs to go on. It's national education in an international space. Thank you very 00:19:05.169 --> 00:19:13.349 much. Thank you Tim. I'm going to take up Isabel's challenge of looking at the international 00:19:13.349 --> 00:19:21.169 perspective from a national or a local level and I'm going to reflect on what has happened in 00:19:21.169 --> 00:19:28.249 mathematics education in the UK over the past 10 or 15 years. And in particular, we are 00:19:28.249 --> 00:19:35.649 looking to the countries of the Pacific Rim for educational answers. Now, I'm going to 00:19:35.649 --> 00:19:40.669 raise some questions about that, but before I start, I should say that what those countries 00:19:40.770 --> 00:19:48.970 have achieved is enormously impressive over 50 years. Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea, China 00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:55.930 actually, 50 years ago in much of their country didn't have an education system, education, 00:19:56.350 --> 00:20:05.410 mass education system to speak of and now are leading the world in international tests. 00:20:05.410 --> 00:20:15.250 South Korea, I think, is particularly impressive in its success both culturally and technologically. 00:20:16.290 --> 00:20:27.650 Now, this is a quote from Michael Gove, who was UK, the British Education Minister until earlier this year. 00:20:28.470 --> 00:20:34.290 And this is a quote where he introduced our latest review of the national curriculum. 00:20:34.290 --> 00:20:36.890 This is the fifth in 20 years. 00:20:37.610 --> 00:20:41.490 Tim will be very familiar with this quote because he chaired the expert panel. 00:20:42.930 --> 00:20:47.490 And Michael Gove points to the PISA 2009. 00:20:48.370 --> 00:20:53.210 And he says, we haven't been progressing relative to our competitors. 00:20:53.510 --> 00:20:54.610 We've been retreating. 00:20:54.670 --> 00:20:57.770 And we see the country rankings. 00:20:57.770 --> 00:21:05.650 And in fact, John Jeremy and John Mikkelwright's research suggests actually in PISA we've been 00:21:05.650 --> 00:21:26.599 stable over time PISA looks at 15 year olds It also worth looking at TIMSS Now here is the TIMSS data from primary this is 10 year olds And actually you see in countries improving there England is one of them In fact at primary level England has made the 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:32.379 greatest jump internationally. Part of that jump is because we took the test later, so 00:21:32.379 --> 00:21:37.299 that three months has made a difference to children's development. But partly it's due 00:21:37.299 --> 00:21:42.539 to our national numeracy strategy and a focus on mathematics. 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:47.079 And in fact, the jump as a result of our national numeracy strategy 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:51.899 is probably of the order that Germany have made in Pisa. 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:57.599 If we look at eighth grade, 14-year-olds, 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:01.339 England doesn't feature either in the countries improving 00:22:01.339 --> 00:22:02.579 or the countries declining. 00:22:02.899 --> 00:22:04.159 Actually, we've been stable. 00:22:04.159 --> 00:22:10.039 Apart from a blip when we went up in 2007, we've been stable over time. 00:22:10.879 --> 00:22:13.619 Does that reflect good things in education? 00:22:13.819 --> 00:22:16.099 Well, actually, there's some problems. 00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:22.239 This is some work where I've repeated the seminal CSMS 00:22:22.239 --> 00:22:28.519 Concepts in Secondary Maths and Science study from the 1970s 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:35.399 and compared student 14-year-olds' understanding of mathematics then and now. 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:40.139 And I want first to look at that orange space. 00:22:40.679 --> 00:22:42.379 These tests level children. 00:22:43.099 --> 00:22:49.419 The levels are empirically derived, and they go from level zero to level five. 00:22:49.779 --> 00:23:03.489 That 49 compared to the 50 actually it 56 are at level one or below and now almost two are at level 1 and below 00:23:03.789 --> 00:23:11.809 That is where students can do ratio problems involving integer multiples. 00:23:13.029 --> 00:23:16.949 In fact, that isn't really ratio problems. 00:23:16.949 --> 00:23:32.169 When you start to develop ratio problems up at the enlargement level, then you're really doing multipliers of 1.5, 5.8, 8.5, real ratio problems. 00:23:33.309 --> 00:23:39.429 And yet only 6% of our 14-year-olds are solving enlargement problems. 00:23:40.229 --> 00:23:47.569 Note, at 16, about 13% go on to do our advanced qualification in mathematics. 00:23:48.349 --> 00:23:51.509 And down at the bottom there, the level zeros, 00:23:52.429 --> 00:24:03.129 children who are at 14 having difficulty with even some of the most basic concepts in primary mathematics have doubled over time. 00:24:03.129 --> 00:24:13.289 Now, looking at the OECD study, well, here I want to point to the difference between the blue and the pink lines. 00:24:13.929 --> 00:24:18.229 In the middle there, you'll see a straight line. That's the OECD average. 00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:24.789 Blue is good. That is where your young people do better than your older people. 00:24:25.169 --> 00:24:28.469 It's an indication that the education system is improving. 00:24:28.469 --> 00:24:41.659 The red is where your younger people do worse than your older people Here is England for 55 year olds plus Those are people who 00:24:41.659 --> 00:24:51.619 ended their school education around 1970, 1971. Here are our 16 to 18 year olds now, worse. 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:58.759 And I think, I mean in mathematics in England, there is a good news story about primary. 00:24:59.719 --> 00:25:02.619 Gains at primary are relatively substantial. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.199 But those haven't been sustained in secondary, 00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:08.499 and we have a problem at post-16, 00:25:08.939 --> 00:25:11.499 and mathematics actually seems to have weakened over time. 00:25:13.879 --> 00:25:18.119 Now, before I go on to look at the international picture, 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:21.899 I just want to reflect on James Callaghan. 00:25:21.979 --> 00:25:26.479 James Callaghan was our Prime Minister in the 1970s. 00:25:26.479 --> 00:25:31.919 He kicked off our reforms on education. 00:25:32.539 --> 00:25:38.079 It's as a result of this Ruskin speech in 1976, I think, that we have a national curriculum. 00:25:39.439 --> 00:25:45.539 And here he says, I do not join those who paint a lurid picture of educational decline 00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:47.319 because I do not believe it's generally true. 00:25:47.939 --> 00:25:52.219 Although there are examples which give cause for concern, some of which I've shared with you. 00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:53.999 I'm raising a further question. 00:25:53.999 --> 00:25:54.939 It is this. 00:25:54.939 --> 00:25:59.439 In today's world, higher standards are demanded than were required yesterday. 00:25:59.439 --> 00:26:02.439 And there are simply fewer jobs for those without school. 00:26:02.439 --> 00:26:06.939 Therefore, we demand more from our schools than did our grandparents. 00:26:06.939 --> 00:26:09.939 So can we learn from overseas? 00:26:09.939 --> 00:26:14.259 And here is a picture of education. 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:22.999 This is a class in South Korea, the university school in South Korea. 00:26:23.459 --> 00:26:30.299 It was surrounded, I was one of these people taking pictures of the children at work. 00:26:31.259 --> 00:26:34.819 Well, there are some things that are dangerous. 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.379 And one of those is the dangers of cherry picking. 00:26:38.379 --> 00:26:45.979 What works somewhere doesn't necessarily work in other places. 00:26:45.979 --> 00:26:50.179 So here's an analysis of associations. 00:26:50.179 --> 00:26:52.979 These aren't causal, these are associations. 00:26:52.979 --> 00:26:54.979 Disorderly classrooms. 00:26:54.979 --> 00:26:57.179 It's a bad thing in Korea. 00:26:57.179 --> 00:26:59.779 It appears to be a good thing in the US. 00:26:59.779 --> 00:27:02.179 Disciplined environments. 00:27:02.179 --> 00:27:04.179 It's a good thing in Japan. 00:27:04.179 --> 00:27:06.579 It appears to be a bad thing in Brazil. 00:27:06.579 --> 00:27:10.319 Note, disorderly classrooms and disciplined environment. 00:27:10.819 --> 00:27:14.079 Actually, these don't appear to be binary opposites. 00:27:14.419 --> 00:27:19.019 It's actually quite difficult to define what we're talking about. 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:21.359 And finally, technology. 00:27:22.419 --> 00:27:25.419 Appears to work in Brazil, has no effect in Norway, 00:27:25.979 --> 00:27:28.759 and it's a bad thing in Japan. 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:34.219 Secondly, it's a small global world. 00:27:34.219 --> 00:27:41.919 Here's the best selling textbook in Singapore in primary. It's called My Pals Are Here in 00:27:41.919 --> 00:27:46.599 Mathematics. I think Isabel will be able to correct me. I think it's into its severalth 00:27:46.599 --> 00:28:02.049 edition seventh maybe And the lead author Kong did his PhD at King College London He was supervised by David Johnson one of our greats in mathematics same person who supervised me 00:28:02.769 --> 00:28:08.769 Singapore, like other countries, have come to the UK and the US to learn about education. 00:28:09.529 --> 00:28:13.349 I have a student who's on scholarship at the moment from Singapore. 00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:18.629 each time our government or our opposition announces a policy, she says, 00:28:18.829 --> 00:28:21.029 I thought we borrowed that from you. 00:28:22.189 --> 00:28:26.589 The foremost mathematics educator in Hong Kong, Frederick Leung, 00:28:27.289 --> 00:28:31.869 did his Master's and his PhD at the Institute of Education in London. 00:28:32.669 --> 00:28:40.629 His work has been, as a result, has been informed significantly by that work, 00:28:40.629 --> 00:28:45.309 which is a comparison between Hong Kong, China and UK education. 00:28:45.909 --> 00:28:50.589 Fu Lai Lin in Taiwan has done a fantastic job in Taiwan 00:28:50.589 --> 00:28:53.309 at building up mathematics education research. 00:28:53.569 --> 00:28:54.489 How did he do that? 00:28:54.729 --> 00:29:00.189 He replicated the big studies that had been carried out in the UK and the US. 00:29:00.669 --> 00:29:02.149 And here's one of them. 00:29:02.589 --> 00:29:09.529 Going back to my study, he replicated the study, the CSMS study in Taiwan. 00:29:09.529 --> 00:29:13.329 and he found that in ratio, well sure enough, 00:29:13.329 --> 00:29:16.069 in Taiwan there were more high attainers. 00:29:16.069 --> 00:29:17.629 Not very surprising. 00:29:17.629 --> 00:29:20.469 There were also more low attainers. 00:29:20.469 --> 00:29:24.369 And in his interviews following up on that, 00:29:24.369 --> 00:29:41.059 he found that English students were better at inventing strategies and solving non problems They were better if you like at the soft skills of mathematics the problem skills of mathematics 00:29:42.739 --> 00:29:45.739 What can we learn from international comparisons? 00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.299 Well, we can learn what we do and we don't do. 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:53.859 We can reflect on some of the counterintuitive things that happen in education. 00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:57.079 ask a teacher in this country 00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.079 whether we over assess our students 00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:01.279 and they will all say yes 00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.899 we assess them all the time 00:30:03.899 --> 00:30:07.799 well here's the TIMS data on classroom assessment 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.179 and I've compared here 00:30:11.179 --> 00:30:16.579 England, Finland which we compare with all the time 00:30:16.579 --> 00:30:19.039 Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore 00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:22.119 and I want to focus on that last column 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:30.139 the students who are in classrooms where they are given tests only a few times a year or less. 00:30:30.899 --> 00:30:35.439 England is less than only Sweden or Slovenia. 00:30:36.659 --> 00:30:39.119 We don't over-assess our kids. 00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:45.939 Our teachers are not using enough assessment to inform the teaching that they're doing. 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.259 And that's a serious lesson. 00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:57.939 Finally, back to those 16 to 18 year olds. Why do they not do so well? Well, one of the 00:30:57.939 --> 00:31:04.359 reasons is we stop mathematics at 16. And here is some work that I carried out for the 00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:17.509 Nuffield Foundation in which we looked at what countries did mathematics and upper secondary Most countries in the world in most countries at least two of students carry on with 00:31:17.509 --> 00:31:28.489 mathematics. In England, it's 20 to 26%. So, finally, learning from other systems. Well, 00:31:29.329 --> 00:31:34.429 I mean, we need to be cautious about international comparisons. There aren't easy or 00:31:34.429 --> 00:31:39.649 simplistic lessons. We can look at what we do do as well as what other countries do. 00:31:40.189 --> 00:31:43.929 Other countries have borrowed from us as much as we're borrowing from them. 00:31:44.789 --> 00:31:51.289 In the UK, as a parochial lesson, we could improve our textbooks. And it's a sad lesson. 00:31:51.289 --> 00:31:56.209 When I looked at our textbooks now and compared them to textbooks in the 1970s, 00:31:56.529 --> 00:32:01.549 our textbooks now, after years of research in mathematics education, are worse than they were 00:32:01.549 --> 00:32:08.809 in the 1970s. We could value some of our strengths, actually. Our problem-solving strength, 00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:17.669 I think we are in serious danger of losing our ability to solve non-routine problems in a 00:32:17.669 --> 00:32:25.209 perfectly understandable rush to try and improve results elsewhere. We could use more classroom-based 00:32:25.209 --> 00:32:31.269 assessment, more formative assessment to inform teaching. And finally, like every other country 00:32:31.269 --> 00:32:38.269 in the world we simply should not stop studying mathematics at 16 the job is not done. 00:32:38.269 --> 00:32:47.829 Every time a distorted news story is produced domestically here in England in order to optimize 00:32:47.949 --> 00:32:52.689 the domestic political impact, but misrepresenting what's actually going on in England. 00:32:53.389 --> 00:32:58.389 Cambridge is incredibly highly sensitive to the international impact of those stories, 00:32:58.589 --> 00:33:04.089 as the international policymakers and researchers observe what's happening in terms of UK 00:33:04.089 --> 00:33:07.929 comment and education, and that's a very important process I think we have to be much more sensitive 00:33:07.929 --> 00:33:13.189 to. The second point I just want to emphasise is this idea of threat, because the word threat 00:33:13.189 --> 00:33:16.889 has been mentioned a number of times in the presentations, and Isabel and I have discussed 00:33:16.889 --> 00:33:23.589 the extent to which often domestic politicians will use some amorphous idea of the threat of other nations 00:33:23.589 --> 00:33:30.109 to legitimate policy action within their own country, which is not grounded in sound transnational comparisons. 00:33:30.769 --> 00:33:32.489 And I think we have to be very alert to that. 00:33:33.109 --> 00:33:37.709 So picking up some of that second theme, can I introduce Karin Simmer from DIP in Germany, 00:33:38.109 --> 00:33:43.229 which has been responsible for articulating a very sensitive process of domestic research 00:33:43.229 --> 00:33:46.749 in the wake of the 2000 and subsequent piece of findings. 00:33:46.889 --> 00:33:48.589 So, Karin from DEP. 00:33:49.309 --> 00:33:50.209 Thank you very much. 00:33:53.729 --> 00:33:56.309 Thank you very much, and good day to all of you. 00:33:56.969 --> 00:34:04.049 I will report today on how policymakers have dealt with the results of international assessments in Germany, 00:34:04.169 --> 00:34:10.049 but before I do this, let me first shortly set the scene, see whether that works. 00:34:10.049 --> 00:34:17.049 As many of you will know, Germany is a federal state with a federal school system. 00:34:17.049 --> 00:34:34.139 The primary responsibility for legislation and administration rests with the 16 federal states of Germany or Lender as they are called Typically school entries at six years and after four or six years of comprehensive primary schooling 00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:37.919 students go on to different secondary school tracks. 00:34:38.839 --> 00:34:44.539 The academically-oriented track gymnasium exists in all of the 16 Lender, 00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.639 and upon successful completion after eight years or nine years, that depends, 00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:55.399 students have gained the right to attend university. The number and types of 00:34:55.399 --> 00:35:01.099 lower track schools differ from Lund to Lund. Some school types offer one course 00:35:01.099 --> 00:35:05.659 of education leading to a specific qualification mostly vocationally 00:35:05.659 --> 00:35:10.579 oriented. Other schools bring two or three courses of education under one 00:35:10.579 --> 00:35:16.079 umbrella and in the 19th of the last century and the beginning of this 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:21.779 century there were typically three different tracks in each land academically 00:35:21.779 --> 00:35:26.399 oriented gymnasium and intermediate track called real schule and a lower track 00:35:26.399 --> 00:35:33.239 called hop schule literally translated main school with an additional multi 00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:38.079 track school called exam truly in some of the lender but not all of them due to 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:43.019 among other things demographic pressure there is currently a tendency towards a 00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:45.739 a two-tracked education system in most lander, 00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:50.619 even though some of them still have five or even more school types, 00:35:50.619 --> 00:35:52.959 as was the case in the 90s. 00:35:52.959 --> 00:35:56.159 So a highly diversified system. 00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:59.119 To this system, what was the TIMSS shock? 00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:14.249 That was the first shock After nearly 20 years of not taking part in any international assessments Germany took finally part in the TIMSS study 1995 for the 8th grade and 12th grade 00:36:15.049 --> 00:36:19.449 and met with shocking results. Not only was the mean performance absolutely mediocre, 00:36:19.449 --> 00:36:23.289 it turned out that performance was strongly linked to socio-economic 00:36:23.289 --> 00:36:29.209 background which in turn was linked strongly to the different secondary school tracks. 00:36:29.209 --> 00:36:32.689 The graph on the right side shows one of these results. 00:36:32.689 --> 00:36:37.009 On the abscissa you have the socio-economic status from lower to higher. 00:36:38.129 --> 00:36:41.569 On the ordinate the mean achievement, lower to higher. 00:36:42.049 --> 00:36:45.449 And each dot denotes a school, achievement in the school. 00:36:45.809 --> 00:36:48.209 Different colours standing for the different school tracks. 00:36:48.849 --> 00:36:52.729 You have the gymnasium, the academically oriented track on the upper right. 00:36:53.309 --> 00:36:55.769 The low track, Hauptschule, in red to lower left. 00:36:55.849 --> 00:36:58.409 And in between the intermediate, Rialschule in green. 00:36:59.209 --> 00:37:10.829 The results from TIMSS 95 were published in 1997, and they led to intense discussions and reactions from policymakers, administrators, researchers, and teacher unions. 00:37:10.989 --> 00:37:14.809 And I will come back to the policy reactions in one moment. 00:37:15.209 --> 00:37:20.529 The TIMSS results did not gain wider public attention or media coverage, though. 00:37:20.529 --> 00:37:27.609 The public uproar was triggered by the results from the PISA assessments conducted in 2000 00:37:27.609 --> 00:37:29.449 and published in December 2001. 00:37:30.769 --> 00:37:36.209 Nearly all of the newspapers and weeklies ran five to six page reports on the results 00:37:36.209 --> 00:37:51.619 and asking as in the covered page of one of the most influential German weeklings the Spiegel are German students stupid And it was a real question They really meant that What had happened was that the performance in all the three assessment domains reading 00:37:51.619 --> 00:37:54.539 math, science, were well below the OECD average. 00:37:55.919 --> 00:37:59.539 And there was a large group of low and very low performers. 00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:05.979 And again, a strong association of achievement and socioeconomic background as well as immigration 00:38:05.979 --> 00:38:06.499 background. 00:38:06.499 --> 00:38:11.499 These were the main results that were published at the time. 00:38:11.499 --> 00:38:15.499 But PISA 2000 had provided even more information. 00:38:15.499 --> 00:38:20.499 It created for the first time in Germany both international and intra, 00:38:20.499 --> 00:38:24.499 between lender evidence for Germany. 00:38:24.499 --> 00:38:28.499 As Germany had run a national oversampling, so that to the policy makers, 00:38:28.499 --> 00:38:32.499 but not to the public, not to the public, but to the policy makers, 00:38:32.499 --> 00:38:36.819 they also had nationally comparable results for each of the lender. 00:38:39.019 --> 00:38:42.079 And these results, both national and on the international level, 00:38:42.479 --> 00:38:44.819 pointed in the same direction as the TIMS outcomes. 00:38:45.379 --> 00:38:50.499 And there was no doubt raised anywhere as to their validity or pertinence. 00:38:51.259 --> 00:38:54.959 The results were so devastating that almost instantaneously 00:38:54.959 --> 00:38:58.219 consensus emerged among the different political parties 00:38:58.219 --> 00:39:01.879 and among the 16 lender on a course of action. 00:39:02.499 --> 00:39:08.159 But as I mentioned before, some of the groundwork had already been laid in reaction to the TIMSS 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.679 results. 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:16.959 The educational policy reactions to TIMSS, no, I have to start first. 00:39:16.959 --> 00:39:21.419 There is the standing conference of the 16 ministries of education and cultural affairs 00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:26.639 of the lender. That is the political body that coordinates the school legislation and 00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:32.699 administration among the 16 lender to a certain extent. In the same year that TIMSS was published 00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:38.459 in 1997, the Standing Conference decided on two pillars of action. More control on the 00:39:38.459 --> 00:39:46.659 one hand and more support on the other. And more control meant the implementation of national 00:39:46.659 --> 00:39:54.699 standards. The first assessment was eventually run in 2006 but it was decided in 1997 already. 00:39:55.419 --> 00:40:01.059 It also meant for the first time setting up a biennial national indicator-based reporting 00:40:01.059 --> 00:40:05.999 on the German education system over the life course from early education, childhood and care 00:40:05.999 --> 00:40:11.919 through to school, vocational education and training, university education and continuing 00:40:11.919 --> 00:40:18.059 education by a consortium of independent researchers that was also important, deemed important. 00:40:18.879 --> 00:40:26.719 It was decided that the certification, the university entrance qualification, the A-levels, 00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:32.579 would be based on lender-wide central exams in all lender. That had not been the case before. 00:40:33.379 --> 00:40:39.799 And it was decided to participate from now on in nationwide and international large-scale service. 00:40:39.799 --> 00:40:44.339 and Biese was the first one after the CHIMS assessment. 00:40:44.339 --> 00:40:49.599 On the other hand, more support meant recognizing the need 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:53.099 to strengthen empirical educational research and infrastructure, 00:40:53.099 --> 00:41:10.949 first and foremost Also starting up new pedagogical initiatives mostly in the fields of math and science Starting initiatives and increasing all schooling and also supporting further teacher professionalization 00:41:11.329 --> 00:41:14.229 especially mostly in math and science at that point. 00:41:14.229 --> 00:41:35.909 That was 1997. And in response to PISA 2000 and in synchrony in the same month that the PISA results were published, the Standing Conference reconfirmed these topics that I have just presented to you and introduced a new focus on language and also on early German language acquisition. 00:41:35.909 --> 00:41:40.909 The Lender Ministries agreed on seven focus areas. 00:41:40.909 --> 00:41:48.909 The improvement of language competence, promoting disadvantaged students, professional teaching, quality assurance and evaluation, 00:41:48.909 --> 00:41:57.909 the extension of all day schooling, improvement of primary school education, and a stronger and better linkage between preschool and primary education. 00:41:57.909 --> 00:42:02.909 So again you can see the double focus on control and support. 00:42:05.909 --> 00:42:19.029 From this point onward, PISA 2000 at the latest, large scale assessments have now become a very important component of school system monitoring in Germany. 00:42:20.029 --> 00:42:24.589 Germany takes part in the TIMP studies in PARLS, in PISA. 00:42:25.589 --> 00:42:43.639 Since 2006 national education standards are assessed every three years in different domains and also within LAND tests they are called VERA which are aligned to the national education standards and to the specific lender curricula give feedback to teachers So they are different 00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:48.399 tests with a different focus, give feedback to teachers on achievement in class. 00:42:49.979 --> 00:42:55.419 The National Education Report on Education and Learning over the lifespan is published 00:42:55.419 --> 00:43:02.079 every three years by a consortium of researchers. And in addition to a general overview of the 00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:07.919 system and trends, it highlights specific topics set by the federal and Lander Ministries 00:43:07.919 --> 00:43:08.919 of Education. 00:43:08.919 --> 00:43:15.759 Over the last years, there has been the conditions of migrant students, the transitions to upper 00:43:15.759 --> 00:43:23.059 secondary education and from school to work, education and demographic change, cultural 00:43:23.059 --> 00:43:29.839 and aesthetic education, the conditions of persons with impairment in the education system 00:43:29.839 --> 00:43:36.219 in Germany and in 2016 the special focus will again be on the condition of migrant students. 00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:44.679 All these courses of action were developed, flanked, evaluated by or in close cooperation 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:51.579 with empirical educational researchers that had previously been a minority in academics in Germany. 00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:59.819 The same holds for the pedagogical programs and projects. Special emphasis had been laid 00:43:59.819 --> 00:44:08.759 on the individual support and promotion of language competences on programs for disadvantaged 00:44:08.759 --> 00:44:30.008 students and on teacher training and instructional settings for math and science These programs are embedded in complex program structures on the federal level on regional or on local levels and funded by a host of different ministries from the Federal Republic 00:44:30.008 --> 00:44:36.408 to the Lende to the German Research Foundation, different philanthropies. 00:44:36.408 --> 00:44:41.628 In both pillars of action, the scientific underpinnings were deemed crucial for success 00:44:41.628 --> 00:44:44.648 by all stakeholders. 00:44:44.648 --> 00:44:50.128 Indeed the outcomes of TIMSS and PISA had a major impact on empirical educational research 00:44:50.128 --> 00:44:55.628 in Germany, both in establishing research programs and research infrastructure. 00:44:55.628 --> 00:45:03.888 And I would like to illustrate this with a few of the main initiatives. 00:45:03.888 --> 00:45:11.008 So from 2002, research centers were established in empirical educational research through the 00:45:11.008 --> 00:45:15.888 German Research Foundation with a special emphasis on promoting academic careers and 00:45:15.888 --> 00:45:18.408 empirical educational research. 00:45:18.408 --> 00:45:24.548 In 2004, the Institute for Quality Development in Education was founded with the main aim 00:45:24.548 --> 00:45:29.328 of developing national education standards on different levels of the education system, 00:45:29.328 --> 00:45:33.708 running the assessment and of giving the research community access to the data 00:45:33.708 --> 00:45:39.328 and also of developing item pools for the upper secondary school leaving exams 00:45:39.328 --> 00:45:44.428 that qualify for university entrance. The Institute currently has a scientific 00:45:44.428 --> 00:45:48.648 staff of 60 and is located at the Berlin at one of the Berlin 00:45:48.648 --> 00:45:55.008 universities. From 2007 the Federal Ministry of Education has launched a 00:45:55.129 --> 00:45:58.609 framework program on empirical educational research, 00:45:59.209 --> 00:46:01.889 funding around 240 research projects 00:46:01.889 --> 00:46:06.849 with a total amount of around 140 million euro up to 2012. 00:46:06.849 --> 00:46:08.689 They're just prolonging this one. 00:46:09.849 --> 00:46:13.849 Almost half of this total amount went to one specific project, 00:46:14.689 --> 00:46:18.009 the National Education Panel, established in 2009. 00:46:18.249 --> 00:46:21.089 That consists of six panel studies 00:46:21.089 --> 00:46:23.249 which started different stages of life 00:46:23.249 --> 00:46:25.949 with add-on cross-sectional studies. 00:46:26.629 --> 00:46:31.629 And the major goal is to assess the educational trajectories of persons over the lifespan. 00:46:34.029 --> 00:46:38.869 In order to promote international cooperation of German researchers, 00:46:40.729 --> 00:46:46.309 a service point was founded in 2009 with a staff of four persons 00:46:46.309 --> 00:46:50.489 to aid German researchers getting into international contact. 00:46:50.489 --> 00:46:56.809 One year later, a Center for International Student Assessment was founded to coordinate 00:46:56.809 --> 00:47:01.989 mainly the national research around the international PISA assessment. 00:47:01.989 --> 00:47:06.429 That center is now staffed with three full professors with their doctoral and postdoc 00:47:06.429 --> 00:47:10.969 staff and also a non-university infrastructure. 00:47:10.969 --> 00:47:19.369 And finally, in 2013, a central research data center has taken up work to facilitate access 00:47:19.369 --> 00:47:21.369 to research data in education. 00:47:21.369 --> 00:47:25.369 And that means not only the data from the big international and national assessments, 00:47:25.369 --> 00:47:38.539 but also lender data and experimental data What I done now is to outline briefly some of the major investments in the German school system 00:47:40.539 --> 00:47:42.539 But this investment bear fruit. 00:47:44.539 --> 00:47:52.539 More than a decade later, results from PISA showed that the achievement means in Germany were above the OECD average in all domains, 00:47:52.539 --> 00:47:57.539 and particularly strong at the lower end of the performance distribution. 00:47:57.539 --> 00:48:01.999 The relation between competence and socioeconomic background was found to be decreasing. 00:48:02.879 --> 00:48:11.099 While it was strongest in OECD countries in 2000, it fell to average in 2009 and 2012. 00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:19.679 And at the same time, the relative disadvantage of students with an immigrant background has become significantly smaller. 00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:30.379 That sounds good first, but has this improvement in achievement been caused by policy change? 00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:33.519 And as is to be expected, I'm ready. 00:48:33.819 --> 00:48:34.639 Just one more slide. 00:48:35.339 --> 00:48:38.479 Policy makers will say yes, confirm. 00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:42.239 Researchers will not come along the whole way. 00:48:43.319 --> 00:48:45.479 They will need what's going on there. 00:48:45.479 --> 00:48:46.919 A little longer answer. 00:48:47.059 --> 00:48:49.659 They say no empirical evidence for causal effects. 00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:52.339 but at least it has done no harm. 00:48:54.499 --> 00:48:57.039 In society there is, and I will end with this, 00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:00.339 agreement that there has been triggered 00:49:00.339 --> 00:49:02.399 by a mix of many factors. 00:49:02.399 --> 00:49:04.559 One is a growing awareness of educational needs 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:21.948 and issues among all of the stakeholders The other is the implementation of evaluation and accountability instruments including student assessment on a regular basis and also an increase in achievement expectations in society and on all levels of the school system 00:49:21.948 --> 00:49:30.948 And just the last slide, if I may know, I had two citations from two parties, the policymakers 00:49:30.948 --> 00:49:38.048 and Eckhart Kleeme, an educational scientist, who really think that it has been a fruitful 00:49:38.048 --> 00:49:42.408 venture, joining academics and policy making. 00:49:42.408 --> 00:49:43.408 Thank you. 00:49:43.408 --> 00:49:44.408 Thank you very much indeed. 00:49:44.408 --> 00:49:48.508 Can we stay to the other side so we can hear the mic? 00:49:48.508 --> 00:49:49.768 Thank you very much indeed. 00:49:49.768 --> 00:49:55.948 And of course, challenging the omnipotence of policymakers and their view of themselves is very important. 00:49:57.568 --> 00:50:06.928 We'll now open up the conference for questions and exchange, both here and to our seminars globally. 00:50:08.208 --> 00:50:11.768 I just want to comment really on the last presentation. 00:50:12.068 --> 00:50:17.568 I think what we've heard is perhaps the most sophisticated and sensitive response to transnational comparisons 00:50:17.568 --> 00:50:21.668 that I've ever come across, and I've worked with a large number of nations. 00:50:22.988 --> 00:50:26.268 And indeed, I've introduced both Eckhart Kleemer and Nina Jude 00:50:26.268 --> 00:50:27.788 to the chair of the Select Committee here, 00:50:28.268 --> 00:50:31.208 because I think we can undertake a great deal of policy learning 00:50:31.208 --> 00:50:34.288 from the sophistication of the German response. 00:50:35.328 --> 00:50:39.728 Now, in terms of Q&As for the remaining part of this session, 00:50:40.788 --> 00:50:43.288 and working with our colleagues around the world, 00:50:43.288 --> 00:50:58.458 I been told not only that we got you know the sophistication and complexity of different contributors Bennett Steinberg has also introduced even more complex choreography because Egypt is going to ask a question of India 00:51:01.438 --> 00:51:05.238 And after Egypt has asked its question of India, 00:51:06.278 --> 00:51:10.818 Isabel is going to respond to that question 00:51:10.818 --> 00:51:13.878 in order to give India a time 00:51:13.878 --> 00:51:16.358 to think about the response to that question. 00:51:17.218 --> 00:51:19.098 So first of all, we will go to Egypt 00:51:19.098 --> 00:51:20.758 and have a question from them. 00:51:20.918 --> 00:51:22.298 And that question is this. 00:51:23.398 --> 00:51:25.998 One of the challenges is that students 00:51:25.998 --> 00:51:28.698 in international education are immersed in their studies 00:51:28.698 --> 00:51:31.538 in a different culture other than the local culture. 00:51:32.218 --> 00:51:33.758 How do they face this? 00:51:34.458 --> 00:51:35.918 And how do students resist, 00:51:36.138 --> 00:51:38.478 and will students resist the new culture 00:51:38.478 --> 00:51:41.298 or just accept it instead of theirs? 00:51:41.298 --> 00:51:50.458 so India will now ponder this question and Isabel with a completely impossible time frame will 00:51:50.458 --> 00:51:56.398 respond to it. Isabel. Okay well just a couple of thoughts for people to think about in this context 00:51:56.398 --> 00:52:02.178 the curriculum of course the experienced curriculum for the young people is not just the subjects as 00:52:02.178 --> 00:52:06.678 they call it but the whole experience of living and working in their community and at school 00:52:06.678 --> 00:52:11.778 and I think that going back to Simon Liebes the model of this obscure school 00:52:11.778 --> 00:52:14.418 in the middle of the Scottish Highlands with away from everywhere with cold 00:52:14.418 --> 00:52:19.158 showers is completely different from the idea of a school in the middle of a town 00:52:19.158 --> 00:52:22.998 in Indonesia with people living in the local community and being part of it and 00:52:22.998 --> 00:52:27.678 a lot of our international schools will tell you of the work that they do to 00:52:27.678 --> 00:52:28.598 engage with communities 00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:35.399 groups. There's some very good examples in India of doing that. And also the attempt to try and 00:52:35.399 --> 00:52:39.679 engage in the international community through, for example, partnerships with schools in other 00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:44.639 countries, which is very easy and cheap to do through internet connections, which don't cost 00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:50.039 any money. So there's a real challenge to the experienced curriculum. It cannot be in isolation 00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:54.699 from the community, and anybody who thinks it can is wrong. And anybody who thinks that the local 00:52:54.699 --> 00:52:58.599 community can be in isolation from the international community just leaks needs 00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:02.859 to watch kids with their mobile phones to realize how wrong that is as well 00:53:02.859 --> 00:53:07.299 thank you is a but I think the it was something that I was very concerned about 00:53:07.299 --> 00:53:10.179 in terms of this conference as to whether we would lapse into that your 00:53:10.179 --> 00:53:13.299 first model of actually avoiding the issues rather than actually both 00:53:13.299 --> 00:53:17.199 confronting them and thinking about appropriate ways forward in terms of 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:21.999 developing international dialogue so I think this this this area of values 00:53:21.999 --> 00:53:27.079 culture interactions internationally and nationally is indeed absolutely critical for 00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:28.079 us to discuss. 00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:34.879 Now perhaps we can go to India in order to listen to their considered response. 00:53:34.879 --> 00:53:40.999 Do we have any questions for our group? 00:53:40.999 --> 00:53:41.999 It's a comment. 00:53:41.999 --> 00:53:45.999 Egypt has asked us a question. 00:53:45.999 --> 00:53:48.999 Maybe one point that we can certainly say and I could... 00:53:48.999 --> 00:53:49.999 I can't wait. 00:53:49.999 --> 00:53:50.999 I can't wait. 00:53:50.999 --> 00:53:51.999 My pocket's on. 00:53:51.999 --> 00:53:52.999 It's on. 00:53:52.999 --> 00:53:58.179 One point that we can certainly say from India is I think the students are students everywhere 00:53:58.179 --> 00:54:12.369 and it not very difficult for them to actually start learning or enjoying learning about different cultures about different contexts I think it mostly the adults who set these boundaries of national versus international 00:54:12.369 --> 00:54:15.929 and make it difficult for that learning to happen. 00:54:16.669 --> 00:54:21.849 But certainly, I mean, I'm probably saying it as a wider education professional. 00:54:22.329 --> 00:54:24.969 Maybe one of the schools here may want to add to that. 00:54:25.929 --> 00:54:31.289 I think Isabel spoke about international values. 00:54:31.289 --> 00:54:35.349 If you can speak more about what are those international values, 00:54:35.509 --> 00:54:38.869 spell them out for us, it will enlighten us. 00:54:40.109 --> 00:54:44.389 What we found was that our children are now finding it difficult 00:54:44.389 --> 00:54:47.769 to merge with the global culture. 00:54:48.909 --> 00:54:52.329 Boundaries are normally set by the adults, 00:54:52.689 --> 00:54:54.009 but the students are free. 00:54:54.569 --> 00:54:58.369 We've had exchange programs with students from other countries 00:54:58.369 --> 00:55:00.689 and we found them all the same. 00:55:00.689 --> 00:55:05.329 and their activities and their thoughts, their thinking, all the same. 00:55:05.909 --> 00:55:09.549 So culturally there is not a divide. 00:55:10.309 --> 00:55:12.069 The divide may be in their house. 00:55:12.989 --> 00:55:16.949 Yes, if such sessions are held for our students, Global Connect, 00:55:17.349 --> 00:55:21.969 maybe we can get the right information directly from them. 00:55:22.489 --> 00:55:24.449 We are speaking on behalf of them. 00:55:24.449 --> 00:55:28.449 it's better that they speak on behalf of the entire global 00:55:28.449 --> 00:55:33.449 citizen community as a global community. 00:55:33.449 --> 00:55:37.449 And nowadays there's a lot of global awareness. 00:55:37.449 --> 00:55:52.098 So I think the influences that come the exposure that is available to students so I think we are able to embrace different cultures and respect them almost naturally it coming to us 00:55:52.098 --> 00:55:56.278 And schools that are other educators like us 00:55:56.278 --> 00:56:00.438 who are more forward-looking and progressive in our thought, 00:56:01.038 --> 00:56:04.518 I think we are the ones who are the change makers 00:56:04.518 --> 00:56:06.518 and kind of lead the change. 00:56:06.678 --> 00:56:08.298 We are more balanced actually than us. 00:56:08.838 --> 00:56:10.038 We are more balanced. 00:56:10.538 --> 00:56:14.538 and pass it back to Cambridge with those thoughts from India. 00:56:14.538 --> 00:56:15.538 Thank you very much indeed. 00:56:15.538 --> 00:56:20.538 And perhaps we can just return to our Egyptian colleagues for their response 00:56:20.538 --> 00:56:24.538 or any further clarification in that area that they wish to make. 00:56:40.538 --> 00:56:42.958 Okay, there's a slight break in the audio. 00:56:43.138 --> 00:56:46.538 So we'll open this topic up to the floor here. 00:56:46.818 --> 00:56:51.238 So would anybody like to contribute in this area of the issues 00:56:51.238 --> 00:56:56.338 around values, cultural values embodied in education nationally and internationally? 00:56:58.818 --> 00:56:59.638 Yes, Helen. 00:57:00.958 --> 00:57:03.018 Could you stand up, Helen, and say who you are? 00:57:03.838 --> 00:57:06.238 Helen Eccles, Cambridge International Examinations. 00:57:06.498 --> 00:57:08.038 And my question is for Isabel. 00:57:08.038 --> 00:57:13.518 We, as you know, Isabel, we work with governments on their education reform programmes. 00:57:13.678 --> 00:57:31.888 And as you point out there is a real trend towards embedding national culture and values in that national education system Now some educational trends like 21st century skills you can do that through pedagogy in every single subject lesson One of the problems we find 00:57:31.888 --> 00:57:38.188 governments face is that when they introduce lessons in their cultural values, they're very 00:57:38.188 --> 00:57:45.248 squashed for curriculum space and it leads to students in schools really not having time to do 00:57:45.248 --> 00:57:50.768 this kind of reflective learning that we'd like them to do and I wondered if you had any experience 00:57:50.768 --> 00:57:56.888 of this or any solutions to that particular tension between national and international education 00:57:56.888 --> 00:58:03.388 thank you very much it's a very important question I've certainly experienced the problem 00:58:03.388 --> 00:58:09.768 there are schools including schools I visited in southeast Asia where in order to embrace the local 00:58:09.768 --> 00:58:15.408 and the national religious and cultural imperatives and the Cambridge curriculum 00:58:15.408 --> 00:58:19.528 the children have to do double school day more or less they do the Cambridge 00:58:19.528 --> 00:58:22.668 stuff in the morning till about two o'clock and then they have to more as a 00:58:22.668 --> 00:58:27.948 complete day's worth of of nationally based or religiously based extra 00:58:27.948 --> 00:58:33.108 education and they're basically over taught and tired and that the answer 00:58:33.108 --> 00:58:37.568 cannot be to have a duplicate curriculum I just don't believe that that can be so 00:58:37.568 --> 00:58:43.928 and I think what is needed is a real discussion of how of course you may have 00:58:43.928 --> 00:58:49.948 to have specialist extra sessions for particular very specified subject but 00:58:49.948 --> 00:58:53.828 the less of those the better the real challenge is how can a study of science 00:58:53.828 --> 00:58:59.948 of history embody the culture and values of the nation as well as those of an 00:58:59.948 --> 00:59:02.188 international curriculum it's very hard to 00:59:02.309 --> 00:59:06.769 But if it's just doubling everything, then I think the kids will rebel eventually. 00:59:07.489 --> 00:59:10.709 At the moment, an awful lot of them are pushed by their parents, 00:59:10.909 --> 00:59:14.689 but they cannot go on like that because they're simply being asked to do too much. 00:59:14.929 --> 00:59:16.289 And I think it's a real problem. 00:59:17.409 --> 00:59:22.689 I'll bring Jeremy and Karen in a moment, but we can now return to Egypt. 00:59:32.309 --> 00:59:33.549 I thought. 00:59:35.349 --> 00:59:38.089 Our first technical glitch. 00:59:41.149 --> 00:59:41.509 Okay. 00:59:44.669 --> 00:59:46.369 Karen and Jeremy, 00:59:46.709 --> 00:59:48.389 a question has come in 00:59:48.389 --> 00:59:50.389 in terms of the extent to which 00:59:50.389 --> 00:59:53.089 we may be encouraging English 00:59:53.089 --> 00:59:55.789 as a language of instruction. 00:59:56.689 --> 00:59:59.249 But those students themselves 00:59:59.249 --> 01:00:01.689 may not be of a standard in English, 01:00:01.689 --> 01:00:09.789 which allows an English medium assessment to entirely reflect their underlying attainment in other subjects. 01:00:10.669 --> 01:00:14.389 Now this is a key methodological problem for PISA and TIMSS. 01:00:15.149 --> 01:00:19.789 It's cultural sensitivity, it's the specificity of the curriculum 01:00:19.789 --> 01:00:23.609 and it's the responsiveness of these international surveys to this. 01:00:23.609 --> 01:00:31.849 Would you both like to comment on this issue of validity in instruments of the kind that 01:00:31.849 --> 01:00:48.098 we see in these transnational surveys Jeremy would you like to kick off Well I refer to self Self is assessed in PISA Self is a measure of how confident you are 01:00:48.098 --> 01:00:52.298 to tackle a problem, a task. 01:00:52.878 --> 01:00:55.638 One of my students has just looked at the validity problem 01:00:55.638 --> 01:00:58.238 in PISA's self-efficacy test. 01:00:58.718 --> 01:01:01.838 It's worth looking at their self-efficacy items. 01:01:02.078 --> 01:01:03.038 They are not very good. 01:01:03.038 --> 01:01:07.178 in part they're too easy 01:01:07.178 --> 01:01:09.218 so they don't challenge 01:01:09.218 --> 01:01:13.878 those students with high self-efficacy 01:01:13.878 --> 01:01:16.878 they don't challenge those students who are 01:01:16.878 --> 01:01:18.778 attaining highly in mathematics 01:01:18.778 --> 01:01:24.158 in part they lack validity 01:01:24.158 --> 01:01:27.138 also because of the cultural aspects 01:01:27.138 --> 01:01:30.918 in Hong Kong my student David Pepper 01:01:30.918 --> 01:01:35.698 asked Hong Kong students about these items. 01:01:36.038 --> 01:01:38.598 One asked about a train timetable. 01:01:39.078 --> 01:01:42.098 The students really didn't understand what the task was about. 01:01:42.878 --> 01:01:51.438 Similarly, they were asked about a fuel mileage calculation. 01:01:52.158 --> 01:01:55.878 And again, they didn't understand what that was about. 01:01:55.878 --> 01:01:59.638 They could do the problem, but their self-efficacy 01:01:59.638 --> 01:02:02.638 wasn't measured very well. 01:02:04.338 --> 01:02:08.338 And that's a problem because PISA and the OECD 01:02:09.498 --> 01:02:13.278 are claiming that self-efficacy is one of the keys 01:02:13.278 --> 01:02:37.868 to solving our educational problem I not sure sure it is And it actually may be an issue that one needs an optimal assessment of one ability to do a task rather than one feels confident simply to do any old task 01:02:37.868 --> 01:02:44.008 Thank you, Father. At Cambridge, colleagues like Tom Benton are doing important work on the validity of the individual items, 01:02:44.208 --> 01:02:51.508 and it does call into question some of the very, very seemingly certain top-line assertions being made about autonomy, 01:02:51.708 --> 01:02:56.588 about self-efficacy and so on from the organisations running these surveys. 01:02:56.588 --> 01:02:58.228 Karen, would you like to come in on this briefly? 01:02:58.668 --> 01:03:01.968 I think there's been two problems that you have been addressing at the same time. 01:03:02.068 --> 01:03:07.528 One is the questionnaire measures, where there is maybe a problem on top of everything, 01:03:07.528 --> 01:03:13.108 namely does self-efficacy mean the same to all cultures, for example, bluntly put. 01:03:13.548 --> 01:03:18.528 And in the competence assessment, the problem seems to be easier in that it is only that 01:03:18.528 --> 01:03:21.988 it has to be transmitted in a certain language, the language of testing. 01:03:22.848 --> 01:03:31.648 And methodically speaking, formally speaking, PISA, TIMSS, has tried to do as much as possible 01:03:31.648 --> 01:03:38.968 to rigidly ensure procedures, worth translation of items, double cross translation of items 01:03:38.968 --> 01:03:44.648 of two source languages and so on, that has really set standards for all kind of international 01:03:44.648 --> 01:03:45.648 assessments. 01:03:45.648 --> 01:03:51.988 Yes, there is a problem and also a problem if students do not know English or the test 01:03:51.988 --> 01:04:06.138 language well enough are also in the PISA assessment standards regulations on for how long a person has to be schooled in the country in the test language before it is allowed to take the 01:04:06.138 --> 01:04:11.098 test. But these are all regulations, there will always be a problem around this. But 01:04:11.098 --> 01:04:15.538 the problem of the questionnaire measures is one on top, it's a true validity problem. 01:04:15.538 --> 01:04:20.538 Thank you very much indeed. And yes, I'm sure that there are many questions and I'd 01:04:20.538 --> 01:04:28.498 I'd certainly like this session to run, but we have to keep to our strict timetable, not least because of the international contributions. 01:04:28.738 --> 01:04:33.418 But thank you, panellists, very, very much indeed, Isabel, Jeremy and Karin. 01:04:34.538 --> 01:04:47.118 A couple of things. A tweet has come in, again engaging with this issue of English language as becoming, it's a weird phrase, the lingua franca around the world. 01:04:47.118 --> 01:04:50.578 and the importance of gaining levels of competence in English 01:04:50.578 --> 01:04:53.538 in order to access study in other countries. 01:04:54.538 --> 01:04:58.218 We'll think about this issue over lunch and come back to it. 01:04:58.878 --> 01:05:03.678 But on the subject of tweets, my earpiece tells me, tweet more. 01:05:04.678 --> 01:05:05.838 Do use the technology. 01:05:06.018 --> 01:05:08.718 So far it's worked, apart from a minor problem. 01:05:09.338 --> 01:05:10.258 So tweet more. 01:05:11.458 --> 01:05:15.658 Before I ask for traditional thanks to our colleagues on the panel, 01:05:15.658 --> 01:05:17.638 can I say goodbye to Egypt and India? 01:05:17.758 --> 01:05:20.418 It has worked, and we have managed a process 01:05:20.418 --> 01:05:24.738 of simultaneous international exchange, which is great. 01:05:25.138 --> 01:05:27.358 But to end this session and bring this session to a close, 01:05:27.458 --> 01:05:29.298 can I thank those who've asked questions 01:05:29.298 --> 01:05:32.018 and also thank our contributors on the panel. 01:05:32.458 --> 01:05:33.338 Thank you very much indeed.