WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.160 Right, we now have about 15 minutes to discuss this. 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:08.760 Anybody want to start in any particular direction? 00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:14.300 Yes, the there, followed by the there, 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:18.580 down the third row back, and then behind you again, Jane, 00:00:18.880 --> 00:00:21.720 after this gentleman, Dr Abramsky. 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:23.940 Jack Abramsky. 00:00:24.220 --> 00:00:27.180 It's really a question based on what Charlie Strip said, 00:00:27.180 --> 00:00:28.020 and it's to Janet. 00:00:28.020 --> 00:00:36.020 why can't the universities start demanding that students post-16 going through the last years of school 00:00:36.020 --> 00:00:39.260 must do some maths to cope with their university courses? 00:00:39.440 --> 00:00:40.400 It's really fundamental. 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:46.540 I think that universities need to clearly articulate the requirement in their degrees 00:00:46.540 --> 00:00:55.720 and that in turn will articulate the requirement for post-16 involvement or use of maths in some contexts. 00:00:55.720 --> 00:01:02.720 So if the actual mathematical content of the degree is clear across a whole spectrum of 00:01:02.720 --> 00:01:05.720 degrees, that would really help that message. 00:01:05.720 --> 00:01:09.720 Of course if they're autonomous institutions, nobody can tell them what to do. 00:01:09.720 --> 00:01:26.313 Carl Hayward Bradley Warwick School One of the things it along the same lines actually one of the problems that we find is that Russell Group universities tend to require a certain level of grades so a a stars that sort of thing a lot of people who are scraping 00:01:26.313 --> 00:01:33.293 a b at gcse really struggle to go to even get a b at a level so they might get a c or a d 00:01:33.293 --> 00:01:38.613 so that tends to mean that they rule themselves out of going to one of these russell group 00:01:38.613 --> 00:01:44.873 universities. So if the universities require them to do some mathematics, then they need to take 00:01:44.873 --> 00:01:52.173 account of that in their entry requirements. And then back there. Mike Ellicott from National 00:01:52.173 --> 00:01:59.253 Numeracy. I very strongly agree with Mark's blog, and I see you changed some of the language, Mark, 00:01:59.353 --> 00:02:04.553 which is a bit of you. And just to build on Charlie's point about the GCSE, I think one of 00:02:04.553 --> 00:02:07.493 the starkest findings from the Skills for Life survey 00:02:07.493 --> 00:02:11.173 from 2011 was that of those that were surveyed 00:02:11.173 --> 00:02:14.053 that did get A star to C at GCSE, 00:02:14.053 --> 00:02:17.313 only 34% of them are still working at level two. 00:02:17.313 --> 00:02:20.373 And of the youngest cohorts, it's only 24%. 00:02:20.373 --> 00:02:24.153 So the point Charlie made about further study is also, 00:02:24.153 --> 00:02:26.213 it seems that GCSE isn't a good preparation 00:02:26.213 --> 00:02:28.953 for functional maths and life as well. 00:02:30.113 --> 00:02:32.093 Okay, and then in the middle there, sir. 00:02:34.553 --> 00:02:48.347 Sorry it me again Dan Thomas still Cambridge Centre for Sickform Studies I teach at level 3 and this is sort of linking in with a lot of what a few people have said both earlier and now 00:02:50.107 --> 00:02:56.627 I get learners onto my A-level maths course for whom A-level maths is not an appropriate course. 00:02:56.627 --> 00:03:04.687 they've got their C at GCSE, but the statistics produced by Cambridge Assessment say that if 00:03:04.687 --> 00:03:11.667 you've got a B at GCSE, the odds are you're going to go on to get a U at A level. So these 00:03:11.667 --> 00:03:16.387 are students who want to go on to do exactly the subjects you're talking about, the psychology, 00:03:16.527 --> 00:03:23.387 the sociology. So we talk about the need for a mathematical competency at above GCSE. 00:03:23.387 --> 00:03:30.947 for me and the students I'm seeing that isn't A-level maths we need to look at a course offer 00:03:30.947 --> 00:03:35.747 which is going to meet those needs and I'm aware these things are in development and it's all 00:03:35.747 --> 00:03:43.807 policy driven and everything else but for me as a teacher following my management team 00:03:43.807 --> 00:03:50.087 trying to persuade them that we need an offer which isn't A-level maths for those learners who 00:03:50.087 --> 00:04:02.940 want to go on to maths requiring subjects it a course offer thing for me I don know if anybody can respond to that Sorry just before Charlie comes in there when you say A are you talking about the whole A 00:04:02.940 --> 00:04:06.600 or are you incorporating things like an AS as well as an A-level? 00:04:06.600 --> 00:04:07.260 Even an AS. 00:04:07.420 --> 00:04:07.820 Even an AS. 00:04:07.820 --> 00:04:14.760 I've got a learner in my group who is very keen to go on to study psychology. 00:04:14.760 --> 00:04:18.180 we have a psychology teacher 00:04:18.180 --> 00:04:22.340 who is recognising the importance of experimental methods 00:04:22.340 --> 00:04:24.800 but isn't that confident in the mathematics 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:29.920 the learner herself recognises that 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.440 she will need it at degree level 00:04:32.440 --> 00:04:36.740 AS maths, the core particularly 00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:38.280 C2 is beyond her 00:04:38.280 --> 00:04:42.400 I think that you might mention 00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:46.880 that there are new sort of qualifications being developed in maths at level 3, 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.460 which are aimed at exactly the type of student that you're talking about. 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.960 The key point about them, or the key worry for me, 00:04:53.140 --> 00:04:55.800 is that in order to be successful and to have proper uptake, 00:04:56.140 --> 00:04:57.760 then there needs to be universities saying, 00:04:57.960 --> 00:04:59.860 we want these qualifications, we recognise them. 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.860 There also needs to be recognition within the senior management teams of institutions 00:05:02.860 --> 00:05:06.600 that these are value qualifications that carry appropriate funding 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:08.360 and appropriate sort of status. 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.320 And if you don't have all of those things, they will fail. 00:05:11.320 --> 00:05:14.700 But there's definitely a very clear demand for these things. 00:05:14.816 --> 00:05:20.436 We can't make them, you know, there's no, nobody seriously thinks about making ASA level maths easier 00:05:20.436 --> 00:05:23.716 because actually for some students you could argue they were already too easy. 00:05:24.056 --> 00:05:28.296 What we need is a different type of qualification but that qualification has to have appropriate status 00:05:28.296 --> 00:05:33.776 in institutions that want to offer it and in university and amongst young people to make them want to choose it. 00:05:34.056 --> 00:05:37.996 And trying to get all those things to happen at once is going to be difficult but we've got to try to do that. 00:05:38.776 --> 00:05:43.296 Aren't we running into Mark's point about everybody's blaming everybody else? 00:05:43.296 --> 00:05:45.416 We've got some HE people in the audience. 00:05:46.056 --> 00:05:49.536 Do they agree their institutions should be sending clearer signals? 00:05:51.916 --> 00:05:55.816 I think this is the argument we've just had forever, 00:05:55.976 --> 00:05:56.936 and we're going to have it forever. 00:05:59.316 --> 00:06:02.196 Industry is always going to say the people coming out of school 00:06:02.196 --> 00:06:04.056 can't do the kind of mathematics we want them to do. 00:06:04.536 --> 00:06:07.556 Universities are always going to say they can't do the mathematics we want them to do, 00:06:07.616 --> 00:06:10.676 because the bits that we try and fix are those crucial points. 00:06:10.676 --> 00:06:14.996 15, 16, 17, 18 year olds, it isn't going to work. 00:06:14.996 --> 00:06:20.336 It hasn't worked, it will never work unless you fix it at the point where they're coming 00:06:20.336 --> 00:06:25.296 into schooling so that by the time they get to age 15, by the time they get to age 18, 00:06:25.296 --> 00:06:40.749 there is no reason why anyone being born today can be a mathematician or can be whatever they want to be and apply mathematics But if we keep this debate concentrated on how we going to sort out the GCSEs or the A 00:06:41.149 --> 00:06:43.149 it will just go on forever and ever. 00:06:45.089 --> 00:06:49.989 I think we'll all agree with that, which takes you to a rather useful question coming in from outside 00:06:49.989 --> 00:06:53.769 from one of our people, actually, a research officer at Cambridge Assessment, 00:06:53.769 --> 00:07:01.169 saying, is what needs to be done, particularly at primary school then, 00:07:01.269 --> 00:07:04.449 where maths is taught mostly by non-specialists, 00:07:05.029 --> 00:07:08.949 that would help us to address the shortcomings that you're talking about? 00:07:09.349 --> 00:07:11.549 Do you actually... I mean, does a non-specialist, 00:07:11.829 --> 00:07:15.409 are they more likely to make maths more interesting 00:07:15.409 --> 00:07:19.229 or are they more likely to not be as secure in that themselves 00:07:19.229 --> 00:07:22.049 and pass on that insecurity further down? 00:07:23.009 --> 00:07:31.269 It's about having at your disposal the means for getting children to master certain concepts. 00:07:31.729 --> 00:07:33.649 It's not about being interesting or fun or anything like that. 00:07:33.809 --> 00:07:36.809 If you want a child to understand number sense or multiplication, 00:07:37.149 --> 00:07:40.149 you need to know what those models are, you need to know how to communicate those models, 00:07:40.529 --> 00:07:42.309 you need to know how to work with a child. 00:07:42.969 --> 00:07:57.383 I not sure what today figure is but certainly recently the figure was around about 23 24 of all of the people teaching mathematics and there were about half a million people teaching mathematics in all its geysers in England from cradle to grave 00:07:58.003 --> 00:07:59.443 And of the people teaching mathematics, 00:07:59.683 --> 00:08:03.163 23% of them have a post-16 mathematics qualification. 00:08:04.923 --> 00:08:07.263 Now, while we have that situation, 00:08:08.163 --> 00:08:13.563 it's going to be really tricky to turn around the system 00:08:13.563 --> 00:08:16.603 because people need to be able to respond immediately. 00:08:16.603 --> 00:08:18.843 They need to know how to react to a child. 00:08:18.943 --> 00:08:23.763 They need to know what things do I do that make it concrete in this child's mind, 00:08:23.843 --> 00:08:26.643 this conceptual understanding of whatever it is they're trying to overcome. 00:08:27.343 --> 00:08:30.163 Then the question I'm asking the audience is how do you overcome that, 00:08:30.323 --> 00:08:36.423 given, as we heard on the IFS, is that the more secure you are in the maths, 00:08:36.423 --> 00:08:42.583 the higher up the system you go in being good at maths, 00:08:42.663 --> 00:08:44.743 the more likely you are to be attracted out of teaching 00:08:44.743 --> 00:08:49.143 and into jobs that pay substantially more, 00:08:49.443 --> 00:08:50.983 even though they may be slightly riskier. 00:08:52.203 --> 00:08:57.343 So how do you actually attract people with those post-16 qualifications 00:08:57.343 --> 00:09:00.723 to actually do the teaching when, if I may say so, 00:09:00.763 --> 00:09:01.803 it's people like yourself, Mark, 00:09:01.843 --> 00:09:03.903 who are attracting the mathematicians into your company 00:09:03.903 --> 00:09:17.856 and taking that to do other things I only stealing really bad ones That all right though But it a genuine question You all got your own pathways into this 00:09:18.796 --> 00:09:20.376 Some of you are staying in education. 00:09:20.496 --> 00:09:21.776 Some of you have moved out of education. 00:09:21.896 --> 00:09:23.816 Some of you have moved in and out of education. 00:09:24.816 --> 00:09:26.816 Who has ideas about how to do this? 00:09:26.816 --> 00:09:27.656 Yes, Professor. 00:09:27.656 --> 00:09:36.736 if you could stand up for our 00:09:36.736 --> 00:09:39.016 thank you and it's not a really 00:09:39.016 --> 00:09:40.976 flippant answer I think the 00:09:40.976 --> 00:09:42.776 trouble is really salary structure 00:09:42.776 --> 00:09:45.116 I think the primary school teacher should be 00:09:45.116 --> 00:09:46.976 paid highest and the professor the 00:09:46.976 --> 00:09:48.936 lowest and that way you will see 00:09:48.936 --> 00:09:50.856 if you run it for 10 years and it is an 00:09:50.856 --> 00:09:52.656 experiment you will find that 00:09:52.656 --> 00:09:54.776 the best teachers are really teaching 00:09:54.776 --> 00:09:56.836 and not going for administrative 00:09:56.836 --> 00:09:58.196 jobs. Thank you. 00:10:02.136 --> 00:10:04.996 One of the things I also do is I'm chairman 00:10:04.996 --> 00:10:08.936 of the Teacher Development Trust. 40,000 entrants 00:10:08.936 --> 00:10:12.516 into the profession each year. Within the first five years, 00:10:12.836 --> 00:10:16.896 most of these people are leaving. People don't leave teaching because of 00:10:16.896 --> 00:10:20.996 pay. When you have level of pay at a 00:10:20.996 --> 00:10:24.816 reasonable level and you can get by and everything's okay, pay is not an issue. 00:10:24.816 --> 00:10:27.976 And I would say at the moment, teaching pay is fine. 00:10:27.976 --> 00:10:29.516 People leave teaching because 00:10:29.632 --> 00:10:30.472 because of conditions. 00:10:31.232 --> 00:10:32.452 It's nothing to do with pay. 00:10:32.972 --> 00:10:34.792 So it's about making the conditions better, 00:10:34.992 --> 00:10:37.212 and that's about challenging school leadership 00:10:37.212 --> 00:10:39.772 and challenging the offset regime 00:10:39.772 --> 00:10:40.832 and challenging the department. 00:10:43.432 --> 00:10:44.672 Yes, there, in the middle. 00:10:48.172 --> 00:10:49.612 Simon Nebus, Cambridge Assessment. 00:10:50.092 --> 00:10:51.752 I'm not sure it's a precise analogy, 00:10:51.872 --> 00:10:54.052 but I've been very struck travelling around the world. 00:10:54.172 --> 00:10:56.112 We also do a lot of English language testing, 00:10:56.112 --> 00:11:01.492 and we're increasingly coming across national governments or local municipalities 00:11:01.492 --> 00:11:07.672 aiming to improve standards of English language learning in primary schools across the world. 00:11:08.052 --> 00:11:10.152 And they don't have teachers who are particularly good at English. 00:11:10.332 --> 00:11:14.032 Often the teachers are only three or four lessons ahead of the kids they're teaching. 00:11:14.152 --> 00:11:17.932 But what they're doing is they're putting in very heavy-duty national municipal programs 00:11:17.932 --> 00:11:21.372 to train people up, breaking the subject down, making it much easier. 00:11:21.372 --> 00:11:27.432 So taking the figure Mark gave of only 25% of people teaching maths being graduates, 00:11:27.552 --> 00:11:32.932 it's not clear in looking at how English language is taught that you necessarily need graduates 00:11:32.932 --> 00:11:35.752 if you're approaching teacher training and development properly, 00:11:36.092 --> 00:11:41.552 and if there's proper resource and methodical involvement for the system as a whole in trying to develop these skills. 00:11:41.832 --> 00:11:54.885 So I don know whether the analogy will work precisely but I certainly think there are lessons there to be learned that are worth thinking about Just down here at the very front in the second row 00:12:00.625 --> 00:12:04.945 David Somerville, I do work for the NCETM, amongst other organisations. 00:12:05.405 --> 00:12:10.445 I've met quite a few people in my travels, primary teachers, who've done the maths specialist teacher programme, 00:12:10.445 --> 00:12:15.385 two-year program, intensive, focusing on some of the deep conceptual areas that have been talked about. 00:12:15.885 --> 00:12:21.665 Those people I've met have clearly been transformed in their ability to teach mathematics 00:12:21.665 --> 00:12:23.165 in the way we've been discussing today. 00:12:23.425 --> 00:12:29.345 I'd be interested in any views any of you have or anyone else has got about that program, its success, 00:12:29.545 --> 00:12:35.425 and whether that should be the number one priority in terms of reaching the kind of state that, Mark, 00:12:35.465 --> 00:12:37.605 you are saying we need to aspire to. 00:12:37.605 --> 00:12:40.305 Is that, sorry, if you just hold on to that for a minute, 00:12:41.105 --> 00:12:44.025 so that's presumably almost the opposite of what Simon's just been saying, 00:12:44.105 --> 00:12:46.405 that's ground up, you choose to go on it? 00:12:46.645 --> 00:12:46.885 Yes. 00:12:46.945 --> 00:12:50.685 In order to progress in your career as opposed to a sort of state-centric, 00:12:51.225 --> 00:12:52.985 here's a brilliant idea if you want to get on, we'll give you... 00:12:52.985 --> 00:12:56.005 Well, the initial aim of the project was to have one person 00:12:56.005 --> 00:12:58.625 in every primary school as a math specialist, 00:12:59.705 --> 00:13:12.619 with very small schools perhaps a federation approach That was the initial one of the the funding Right okay We not getting a lot from this side of the room 00:13:12.839 --> 00:13:13.719 I keep looking over here. 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:15.179 They're all very quiet over here. 00:13:16.939 --> 00:13:18.699 Anybody want to pick up on any of those? 00:13:18.939 --> 00:13:24.919 I mean, I find it interesting that we are still talking about maths as a whole here 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.939 and just thinking about what you were talking about, statistics and all the rest of it. 00:13:27.939 --> 00:13:31.899 personal anecdote, my son is a 00:13:31.899 --> 00:13:34.859 maths genius, unlike me, and I have no idea where he got it from 00:13:34.859 --> 00:13:37.019 he doesn't regard statistics as maths 00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:40.219 that's the tedious, boring stuff that you've got to do over there 00:13:40.219 --> 00:13:42.999 real mathematics is about unlocking the secrets of the universe 00:13:42.999 --> 00:13:44.959 and you don't need statistics for that 00:13:44.959 --> 00:13:47.699 he's clearly picking that up from somewhere at school 00:13:47.699 --> 00:13:51.099 and I have heard other mathematicians say similar things 00:13:51.099 --> 00:13:53.099 Tony, yes 00:13:53.099 --> 00:13:56.939 Tony Gardner, Birmingham 00:13:56.939 --> 00:14:05.639 I think putting the last two things together, no political gimmick is going to get us out of our logjam. 00:14:06.019 --> 00:14:13.659 We've actually got to believe that mathematical ability is much more widely spread than we have traditionally accepted. 00:14:14.099 --> 00:14:19.479 We have taught badly in bad structures, and we have produced cripples at the end of it. 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:37.232 Increasingly large numbers of cripples as Charlie showed us which is a positive thing But we got to believe that you can deal with primary school more effectively by doing slightly less but rather 00:14:37.232 --> 00:14:44.372 more effectively, we get to GCSE and get more people competent there. So they smile just 00:14:44.372 --> 00:14:49.852 like Lynn's Elissa when she's achieved something. They're still smiling at 16. We've got to 00:14:49.852 --> 00:14:51.472 believe you can get large numbers through. 00:14:52.052 --> 00:14:53.832 And if you get a large pool, then 00:14:53.832 --> 00:14:54.972 Bennett's problem disappears. 00:14:56.712 --> 00:14:57.772 Conrad can steal all the 00:14:57.772 --> 00:14:59.672 really good ones. Mark can steal 00:14:59.672 --> 00:15:01.692 the next really good ones. And there are still 00:15:01.692 --> 00:15:03.412 lots left for primary teaching 00:15:03.412 --> 00:15:04.592 and secondary teaching. 00:15:06.472 --> 00:15:07.672 And there we have it. 00:15:09.992 --> 00:15:11.492 Which interestingly 00:15:11.492 --> 00:15:13.532 takes us on to a question 00:15:13.532 --> 00:15:15.912 on Twitter from a Mark 00:15:15.912 --> 00:15:17.012 Yarnell. 00:15:17.952 --> 00:15:18.992 Talking about China. 00:15:19.852 --> 00:15:22.732 Is there anything that China can teach us? 00:15:22.732 --> 00:15:29.692 Making up 20% of the world's population, producing mathematicians by significantly larger thousands than we're producing here. 00:15:29.692 --> 00:15:36.692 Does anybody here have spent any time in China and looked at the way in which they teach? 00:15:36.692 --> 00:15:39.812 Is it simply the fact that they just expect more? 00:15:39.812 --> 00:15:44.332 Is it the fact that they're happy to put up with a wastage level that we might not put up with? 00:15:44.447 --> 00:15:51.167 Are there just so many things to do in China that you can get by without doing maths? 00:15:51.687 --> 00:15:51.927 Yes. 00:15:56.107 --> 00:16:02.507 Obviously I'm not Chinese, but I'm of Indian origin, and we often talk about China as well. 00:16:03.907 --> 00:16:13.027 And I think in those countries, basically, the teaching doesn't wholly rely on the teaching community. 00:16:13.027 --> 00:16:17.427 there's a lot of teaching which actually goes on in the household as well. 00:16:17.807 --> 00:16:20.847 So you'll probably find that these Chinese kids, 00:16:21.207 --> 00:16:23.007 and in fact the Singaporean and the Indian kids, 00:16:23.327 --> 00:16:25.827 have all their textbooks, maths textbooks. 00:16:26.587 --> 00:16:30.707 For the year ahead, they are discussing maths at home 00:16:30.707 --> 00:16:32.327 with their parents and their uncles. 00:16:33.107 --> 00:16:36.407 They're getting a lot of input and advice as well. 00:16:36.987 --> 00:16:38.947 They're doing exam papers at home. 00:16:38.947 --> 00:16:43.947 I think people here would say it's putting them under pressure, 00:16:43.947 --> 00:16:48.947 but that is the way to probably do it really. 00:16:48.947 --> 00:16:51.947 I don't think... 00:16:51.947 --> 00:16:54.947 They're totally immersed and awash in it, 00:16:54.947 --> 00:16:57.947 and that's why I think they are quite successful. 00:16:57.947 --> 00:17:12.761 Which takes us neatly into fear of maths maths anxiety Almost everybody mentioned maths anxiety That a cultural construct Cambridge International did a survey of some of their students worldwide 00:17:13.061 --> 00:17:16.741 which came to Indians, Chinese, most of Asia Pacific. 00:17:17.361 --> 00:17:21.741 Actually all more significantly hated maths more than the West, 00:17:22.141 --> 00:17:23.781 but did significantly better at it. 00:17:24.001 --> 00:17:25.881 They hated it, but they knew it needed to be done. 00:17:26.401 --> 00:17:28.141 Again, a cultural construct, 00:17:28.421 --> 00:17:32.181 whereas in the West this includes the United States, 00:17:32.561 --> 00:17:33.841 didn't like maths very much, 00:17:34.181 --> 00:17:36.721 but were actually better at it when they actually got down to it. 00:17:37.501 --> 00:17:40.461 So does that rest on the maths anxiety? 00:17:40.681 --> 00:17:42.301 How do we overcome the maths anxiety? 00:17:42.901 --> 00:17:45.541 Is it the kind of maths teachers we're producing 00:17:45.541 --> 00:17:46.641 that's producing that anxiety, 00:17:46.801 --> 00:17:49.301 or because we're not producing enough maths teachers? 00:17:50.001 --> 00:17:52.401 Is it the fact that some of you go into a classroom, 00:17:52.401 --> 00:17:54.901 you feel secure, and therefore the kids feel secure, 00:17:54.901 --> 00:18:00.421 they know they think you know what you're doing or is it can we just blame 00:18:00.421 --> 00:18:14.821 it on NQT so just coming in and not feeling up to it over there my period 00:18:14.821 --> 00:18:27.194 teaching maths is actually in what you might call the Cockroft decade and I just running on the point you just raised where the three of the key themes in the Cockroft report which predated GCSEs actually touched on that because Cockroft was 00:18:27.194 --> 00:18:34.634 emphasizing the recognition of a seven-year age span in terms of abilities within any year group 00:18:34.634 --> 00:18:40.674 and therefore you needed to pitch your maths curriculum to reflect the anxieties of people 00:18:40.674 --> 00:18:42.374 at that complete end of the spectrum. 00:18:43.114 --> 00:18:48.774 So your Year 10 group would have a very wide age span in it. 00:18:49.174 --> 00:18:50.574 But two of the other themes of Cockroft 00:18:50.574 --> 00:18:53.694 were the emphasis on practical work and investigative work. 00:18:54.134 --> 00:18:56.474 And the practical work was to give grounding in reality 00:18:56.474 --> 00:18:59.034 so there was less anxiety and a better understanding, 00:18:59.574 --> 00:19:02.054 and the investigative work so that the focus 00:19:02.054 --> 00:19:04.794 was not purely on getting things right 00:19:04.794 --> 00:19:07.254 through a given defined method. 00:19:07.254 --> 00:19:08.494 It was more exploratory. 00:19:08.494 --> 00:19:15.254 I remember at that time trying to drive our maths budget as a teaching department to be amongst the highest in the school 00:19:15.254 --> 00:19:18.974 Why? Because we wanted some software, exploratory software 00:19:18.974 --> 00:19:23.514 It was actually branded Smile, it was on the old BBC computers 00:19:23.514 --> 00:19:30.354 And maths classes were the ones that had a compulsory ESM lesson in the computer lab every week 00:19:30.354 --> 00:19:32.354 And they were very exploratory lessons 00:19:32.354 --> 00:19:48.748 And the only thing we as teachers did was to go around and have conversations with these pupils who are working in pairs with this software We used to do trigonometry like athletics in the summer term because we be out there with various devices for measuring angles 00:19:48.748 --> 00:19:51.268 so you could estimate the heights of buildings and so forth. 00:19:51.828 --> 00:19:53.148 So that was the flavour of it. 00:19:53.808 --> 00:19:56.728 I went into and out of teaching in that era. 00:19:57.108 --> 00:20:00.488 I left teaching because I could see what was going to happen in the 90s 00:20:00.488 --> 00:20:02.488 when the national curriculum came in with all its bureaucracy. 00:20:02.488 --> 00:20:05.148 that open-ended approach to the mathematics curriculum 00:20:05.148 --> 00:20:07.308 I think suffered some serious blows 00:20:07.308 --> 00:20:11.048 as did I think the professionalism of the teaching community 00:20:11.048 --> 00:20:14.108 and the support available for that mathematics teaching community 00:20:14.108 --> 00:20:16.488 so I think reflecting back 00:20:16.488 --> 00:20:17.848 I'm just showing my age of course 00:20:17.848 --> 00:20:21.248 but I think there were some real messages in what Cockroft tried to do 00:20:21.248 --> 00:20:24.508 in that major reform of the approach to maths education 00:20:24.508 --> 00:20:27.388 which for a short time perhaps did have benefits 00:20:27.388 --> 00:20:29.968 but I think we've lost those benefits some time back 00:20:29.968 --> 00:20:32.848 so on that note 00:20:32.848 --> 00:20:35.308 which is not I think necessarily about a golden age 00:20:35.308 --> 00:20:37.048 but certainly about looking into the past 00:20:37.048 --> 00:20:39.148 to see if we can learn anything sensible for the future 00:20:39.148 --> 00:20:41.368 which should be a very conservative viewpoint 00:20:41.368 --> 00:20:43.088 of course and a Liberal Democrat and Labour viewpoint 00:20:43.088 --> 00:20:44.508 so 00:20:44.508 --> 00:20:46.268 things to take away from that 00:20:46.268 --> 00:20:49.068 now I'm going to ask our speakers 00:20:49.068 --> 00:20:50.808 to rapidly descend the stairs 00:20:50.808 --> 00:20:53.068 without doing anything on the health and safety 00:20:53.068 --> 00:20:53.588 side of things