WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:08.960 And finally, after all that, let me introduce myself. I'm Bene't Steinberg, the Group Director of Public Affairs at Cambridge Assessment, and I will be the chair for the day. 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.420 I am delighted to welcome you all here today on behalf of Cambridge Assessment. 00:00:14.260 --> 00:00:23.040 The group, which is the Department of the University of Cambridge and a not-for-profit organisation, is made up of three exam boards, many of which you will know. 00:00:23.040 --> 00:00:29.800 the University of Cambridge International Examinations, the world's leading provider of international education programmes and qualifications, 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:36.740 the University of Cambridge ESOL English for Speakers of Other Languages and OCR in the UK, 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:42.280 together with the largest research capacity of its type in the world. 00:00:43.360 --> 00:00:48.740 At Cambridge Assessment, we believe that assessment is part of a whole learning process. 00:00:48.740 --> 00:00:54.740 as an independent voice we look at what works and therefore try to balance the needs of the 00:00:54.740 --> 00:01:01.120 individual the economy and society and to that end given the large amounts of media which has 00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:07.440 been taking place fairly recently we are debating whether there should be a national examination at 00:01:07.440 --> 00:01:14.080 14 rather than 16 and if so what would the implications for that be for what a student 00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:20.160 does next should this be the starting point for students to take courses leaving them in different 00:01:20.160 --> 00:01:26.060 directions and should these different directions allow students to opt for different routes in 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:34.580 different kinds of institutions academic technical and vocational some ground rules before we start 00:01:34.580 --> 00:01:48.613 this is a debate not a question and answer if you want to pick up a point made by somebody else in the audience please do so If you want to make a statement please do so rather than a question All I ask is you do it through me as the chair 00:01:48.973 --> 00:01:53.833 and that you make your points as concisely as a complex issue like this allows. 00:01:54.333 --> 00:01:59.313 I warn you now, I will cut people off if I think they've already made their point. 00:02:00.493 --> 00:02:05.053 Secondly, you'll notice we're filming the discussion and broadcasting it on the web live. 00:02:05.053 --> 00:02:07.333 and hello to viewers at home. 00:02:09.033 --> 00:02:11.273 For the benefit of that much larger audience 00:02:11.273 --> 00:02:12.633 that couldn't make it here today, 00:02:13.033 --> 00:02:14.273 please ignore the cameras, 00:02:14.793 --> 00:02:17.733 but please make sure that if you're asked to speak, 00:02:17.833 --> 00:02:19.773 you wait until a microphone reaches you 00:02:19.773 --> 00:02:20.933 so they can hear it at home. 00:02:21.333 --> 00:02:24.273 And if you'd like to give us your name and your institution, 00:02:24.273 --> 00:02:25.713 that would also be helpful. 00:02:26.793 --> 00:02:29.993 In your delegate packs, as well as the normal sort of stuff, 00:02:30.293 --> 00:02:34.573 you will find a late paper by Roger-Francois Gauthier. 00:02:35.053 --> 00:02:39.113 Inspector General for Administration of National Education Research in France, 00:02:39.933 --> 00:02:41.793 who's also a UNESCO consultant. 00:02:43.713 --> 00:02:45.773 It's a fascinating paper. 00:02:47.293 --> 00:02:50.113 Roger Francois wanted to be here today but couldn't actually make it, 00:02:50.533 --> 00:02:52.053 so he sent this paper. 00:02:52.133 --> 00:02:57.193 It's a fascinating paper dealing with the struggles that France is undertaking 00:02:57.193 --> 00:03:02.353 in terms of its particular education system. 00:03:02.353 --> 00:03:09.413 I particularly like the paragraph which I am going to read out on page two. 00:03:10.413 --> 00:03:19.313 There is a more and more definite global tendency to regard and influence the existence of education systems as if they were coherent and irrational. 00:03:20.113 --> 00:03:24.013 But the very nature of their constitution, that is historical and understatement, 00:03:24.103 --> 00:03:30.383 predictable makes them even more unstable when one attempts to apprehend them as systems. 00:03:31.043 --> 00:03:35.563 So I think it's rather useful a warning to all of us who are trying to systematise structures 00:03:35.563 --> 00:03:41.763 that are never actually systematised in the first place. So let me outline the event for you today. 00:03:42.563 --> 00:03:47.843 We'll start with Tim Oates, the Group Director of Assessment and Research at Cambridge Assessment. 00:03:49.083 --> 00:03:53.203 Tim will share with us some of the myths and misunderstandings that ought to be considered 00:03:53.203 --> 00:03:55.063 when reviewing education systems. 00:03:55.783 --> 00:03:57.963 We'll then hear from Professor Geoff Hayward 00:03:57.963 --> 00:03:59.563 from the University of Leeds 00:03:59.563 --> 00:04:01.103 and Professor Ken Spurs, 00:04:01.463 --> 00:04:03.143 Head of Continuing Professional Education 00:04:03.143 --> 00:04:05.243 at the Institute of Education London. 00:04:06.163 --> 00:04:09.163 And they will discuss the pros and cons of a rooted system. 00:04:09.923 --> 00:04:12.023 We'll then have some time for some questions 00:04:12.023 --> 00:04:13.523 before we break for coffee. 00:04:14.063 --> 00:04:16.223 And those questions can be wide-ranging, 00:04:16.223 --> 00:04:18.683 but ideally that's so you can pick up 00:04:18.683 --> 00:04:20.123 further and better particulars 00:04:20.123 --> 00:04:21.863 before we actually get to the debate. 00:04:23.203 --> 00:04:33.883 In order to gauge the opinion of the audience here and indeed online, we'll have an interactive voting session after the coffee break. 00:04:34.223 --> 00:04:38.183 These are not yes-no answers. There are no yes-no answers in education. 00:04:38.863 --> 00:04:43.023 We've tried to make them as complicated as a voting system allows. 00:04:44.463 --> 00:04:49.503 After that, and that's sort of taking the temperature before you've actually heard the debate, 00:04:49.503 --> 00:04:52.323 we will then have our panel perspectives. 00:04:52.323 --> 00:04:58.083 We have today Dr Hilary Steedman at the Centre for Economic Performance at LSE, 00:04:59.283 --> 00:05:11.777 Dr Matt Grist Senior Researcher from the think tank Demos and Christopher Moorcroft President of the Association of Colleges It then over to you our audience here and at home 00:05:11.777 --> 00:05:13.817 as we start the main debate. 00:05:13.817 --> 00:05:17.257 Some interested parties have already supplied comments and questions 00:05:17.257 --> 00:05:20.537 and I'll feed these into the debate when they're appropriate. 00:05:20.537 --> 00:05:25.137 And of course, some comments may come to us from outside, as it were, 00:05:25.137 --> 00:05:28.177 which I'll also feed in when they're appropriate. 00:05:28.177 --> 00:05:34.657 and then finally Graham Stewart MP the chair of the House of Commons Education Select Committee 00:05:34.657 --> 00:05:40.397 will be joining us and I expect he'll give us a hint as to what all this might mean in policy terms 00:05:40.397 --> 00:05:48.057 so can I introduce first off Tim Oates who joined Cambridge assessment in 2006 00:05:48.057 --> 00:05:55.557 previously at the regulator the exams regulator qualifications curriculum agency the QCA 00:05:55.557 --> 00:05:59.717 where he had been Head of Research and Statistics for most of the last decade. 00:06:01.517 --> 00:06:06.297 His most recent work has been on new pan-European eight-level qualifications framework 00:06:06.297 --> 00:06:12.477 and he's advised the UK government for many years on practical matters and assessment policy 00:06:12.477 --> 00:06:15.137 and indeed is still doing so, but we don't talk about that here. 00:06:16.117 --> 00:06:19.677 He started his career as a research officer at the University of Surrey, 00:06:19.677 --> 00:06:24.157 moving to the FE Staff College where he helped run the Work-Based Learning Project. 00:06:25.057 --> 00:06:32.697 He then joined London University's Institute of Education as an NCVQ, that takes us back a bit doesn't it, research fellow. 00:06:33.277 --> 00:06:41.117 In 93 he joined one of the QCA's predecessor bodies, the National Council for Vocational Qualifications as head of GNVQ Research and Development. 00:06:41.437 --> 00:06:46.157 Then becoming Director of Research two years later and then moving across to the QCA.